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Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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Old 01-31-2007, 11:39 AM   #121
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

I think there's a guy in New Hampshire who is holed-up in his fortress-like home who is currently refusing to pay his income taxes. He said he's prepared to die if the federal agents try to come in. That was a couple of days ago. Not sure what's going on with that now.
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:50 AM   #122
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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I think there's a guy in New Hampshire who is holed-up in his fortress-like home who is currently refusing to pay his income taxes. He said he's prepared to die if the federal agents try to come in. That was a couple of days ago. Not sure what's going on with that now.
I can understand, and I empathize. If I could do such a thing, I probably would.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:36 PM   #123
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The better argument is that our federal government clearly has no right to actually tax our incomes. No where in the constitution does it explicitly or even indirectly offer that power to the legislature. Good luck though.
The 16th Amendment explicitly allows Congress to levy incomes taxes.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:56 PM   #124
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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The 16th Amendment explicitly allows Congress to levy incomes taxes.
Yes, it does say that. However, I think the argument is that it contradicts previous articles of the original Constitution. I believe it is illegal/unconstitutional to make an amendment to the Constitution which negates something in the original. I'm not sure though.
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:01 PM   #125
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

An interesting site on taxation:
TAX-FREEDOM.COM

"EVERY JUDGE THAT ALLEGES THE 16TH AMENDMENT AUTHORIZES A DIRECT TAX, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE AMENDMENT DOES NOT ACTUALLY SAY THAT, AND DESPITE THE FACT THAT ARTICLE I PROVISIONS PROHIBIT THAT, COMMITTS TREASON OF THE HIGHEST ORDER BY IGNORING AND NOT UPHOLDING THE ACTUAL WRITTEN PROVISIONS IN ARTICLE I OF THE CONSTITUTION, AND ATTEMPTING TO REPLACE THEM WITH HIS OR HER OWN PERSONAL OPINION, NOT WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION." (sorry for the caps)
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:28 PM   #126
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

the bottom line is, that the U.S. govt is that big, that they WILL do whatever they want, to achieve the results that they want. it might take them awhile, but they always win. its almost like the 500lbs. gorilla
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:54 PM   #127
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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the bottom line is, that the U.S. govt is that big, that they WILL do whatever they want, to achieve the results that they want. it might take them awhile, but they always win. its almost like the 500lbs. gorilla
You are exactly right. It's kinda sad though. This is the type of thing our founding fathers gave their lives to get away from (i.e.: the king).

It reminds me of a quote from Ben Franklin. After leaving one of the sessions held for writing one of the important draft documents (articles of confederation, the constitution, or some other), he was asked, "what have you created?" He responded, "a republic, if you can keep it." I guess we have failed.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:55 PM   #128
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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Yes, it does say that. However, I think the argument is that it contradicts previous articles of the original Constitution. I believe it is illegal/unconstitutional to make an amendment to the Constitution which negates something in the original. I'm not sure though.
For better or worse, it is not unconstitutional to pass an amendment to the Constitution that negates something in the original constitution. Subsequently enacted laws or amendments supercede prior laws. Moreover, amendments are not considered "minor additions" to the constitution, they have the same force and effect as the original provisions of the constitution.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:56 PM   #129
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Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it

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For better or worse, it is not unconstitutional to pass an amendment to the Constitution that negates something in the original constitution. The "later in time rule" holds that subsequently enacted laws or amendments supercede prior laws. Moreover, amendments are not considered "minor additions" to the constitution, they have the same force and effect as the original provisions of the constitution.
Yes, but this is the Constitution we are talking about -- not basic laws. Also, isn't an amendment just that -- an amendment? We're talking about a revision here. There is a big difference.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:59 PM   #130
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Yes, but this is the Constitution we are talking about -- not basic laws. Also, isn't an amendment just that -- an amendment? We're talking about a revision here. There is a big difference.
The "later in time rule" also applies to the Constitution and amendents/revisions to the Constitution do in fact have the same force and effect as the original provisions. Thus, the 1st Amendment (freedom of the press, speech, etc) and the 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms) have the same effect as Article I (dealing with Congressional powers) of the original Constitution. I'm no constitutional law scholar, but I was taught as much in my first year of law school by my Constitutional Law Prof. who clerked for Chief Justice Rehnquist.

BTW, yes I know that I am a tool for talking about my Con. Law course in the Parking Lot.
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