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Old 04-13-2007, 03:39 PM   #121
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Seriously, there is a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, a possible recession on the horizon, and tons of political scandals, but somehow Imus, lacrosse players, and Anna Nicole seem to be the lead stories. But, then again, those are the stories that I keep making posts about.
This is the sad part about this whole thing. The stories making headlines do not even compare to the things we should be worried about as a nation. We are at WAR people and that should be in the forefront of everyones mind every single day. Not whether Anna Nicole slept with 3,000 guys and who is the daddy, not Don Imus (asswipe)...I am in 100% agreement with SGG on this one and will go one step further...Our Nation's priorities are f'd up!
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:42 PM   #122
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Ok so instead of bitching at each other about stupid little points, how about discussing the big issue?

Racism is still present in America, how should we deal with it? Honestly how much have accomplished by arguing about the stupid filter.

Perhaps Imus should have lost his job, but he lost it for all the wrong reasons. He lost it because of money and image, rather than people consciously trying to deal with the issue.


Obviously quite a bit of Americans are uneducated and do not have resources to understand the issues, so I personally think we need to do more to educate people all over the US, so there will be less "bigots". To me the alarming thing is people who are racist but have money and are educated. You would think going through education people will not develop racist views, but that isn't true.

Another point that TMC brought up, and that I would like to ask some of the black members at this forum, and that is do you think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are good leaders of the black community? I know they give back a lot and that is a positive, but as some members mentioned they seem to segregate the community rather than integrate.


Any thoughts? And please only response to my post if you want to have a civil discussion.

i agree with you. i feel though that racism will always exist simply because
blacks and whites naturaly segregate themselves from the other. look into a cafateria in a elementary school you'll see kids of all races sitting together , now look at kids in jr high and high school and you'll see most whites sit with whites and most blacks sit with blacks, now look at people out of school whites hang out with whites and blacks hang out with blacks. i know there are exceptions but for the most part thats the way it is. when a controversial issue arises people tend to side with their own race.
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:48 PM   #123
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Re: Don Imus

Just because we don't talk about things like the war everyday, doesn't mean it's not at the forefront of our thoughts. It's just something different to talk about for a few days. I think, in a way, we talk about things like Anna Nicole (RIP) simply for the fact that it's not as big a deal-except to those directly involved-and it's almost a diversion. Which, I realize is a horrible thing to say about someone's death. But I think you understand what I'm getting at.
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:52 PM   #124
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by 100% PURE WHOOP ASS View Post
OF CORSE YOU CANT cause your probaly a white guy, and wouldnt understand at all, whether there white girls on the team or not, it wasnt directed toward the white women, ( so dont play retared) he was targeting a race of women not the whole team, but the more I hear these stupid ass, comments about how he isnt racist just stupid, means you have no more sensitivity toward these girls than he do, and you just catgoried you self with him.
Why must you make conclusions about Wolfeskins because of his race? Just because a person is white, does not mean that they are incapable of understanding racial issues.
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:55 PM   #125
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Re: Don Imus

By the way, when did wolfeskins even say he was White?
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:00 PM   #126
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Ok so instead of bitching at each other about stupid little points, how about discussing the big issue? Racism is still present in America, how should we deal with it? Honestly how much have accomplished by arguing about the stupid filter.

Perhaps Imus should have lost his job, but he lost it for all the wrong reasons. He lost it because of money and image, rather than people consciously trying to deal with the issue.

Obviously quite a bit of Americans are uneducated and do not have resources to understand the issues, so I personally think we need to do more to educate people all over the US, so there will be less "bigots". To me the alarming thing is people who are racist but have money and are educated. You would think going through education people will not develop racist views, but that isn't true.

Another point that TMC brought up, and that I would like to ask some of the black members at this forum, and that is do you think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are good leaders of the black community? I know they give back a lot and that is a positive, but as some members mentioned they seem to segregate the community rather than integrate. Personally I feel Bill Cosby would be a better one because he realized that we cannot just keep on self-segregating and the responsibility falls on BOTH sides, white and black.

Any thoughts? And please only response to my post if you want to have a civil discussion.

I guess I am pessimist when it comes to race relations. Going back through the history of the world it is rather apparent that there will always be some degree of self-segregation. I think as long as there is segegation then raciscm will always exist. It may get better or more may get worse but it is never going to totally go away. That's why I think leaders in all communities need to look for ways to foster relations rather than segregate. It sems perfectly fine if African Americans want to self segregate. Hell they segregate within their own community depedning on tone of skin. But if whites do the same THEN it is racist. Problem is it is racist in both cases.

As for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I have two rather distinct feelings about each of these men and neither is positive.

Al Sharpton- I think Al Sharpton actually believes he is looking out for and leading the black community. I believe his intentions at the heart are pretty noble. But I think he is at his heart a dishonest man and he may even be a racist man. He seems to think it is fine to attack people of other races without impunity and never offer apologies. His treatment of the Duke players is a good example. All the political and racial trappings aside we can probably all agree that had the situation been reversed. Say 3 black Georgetown basketball players had been accused by a white stripper there would be no way have been out front leading the public cruxifiction. In fact I think we could imagine him out front wondering about the alleged victim's character and yelling about all dubious evidence and such. In fact he would be livid and he would be right to be. But once the story started to shift and it became clearer and clearer that these guys were getting railed did he ever come out and say "Hey wait a minute. Maybe we should back off a little?" Did he come out yesterday and say "You know I was too quick to judge and I am sorry" No he has just moved on and forgot all about it. That was a chance to lead. That was a chance to say "Many in the black community, led by me, made a quick judgement of a couple white guys and we were wrong. I am sorry." That kind of statement fosters better relations. That kind of statement leads the black community in a positive way.

Jesse Jackson- As much as I don't like Sharpton I hate Jackson. He is a dishonest and divisive man. He has done more to hurt the African American race than anyone since the 60's. He is a self righteous, self centered, loatheful person who's only real goal is to improve his bank account to the deteriment of the very people he purportedly is trying to help. He makes more money as long as African Americans continue to struggle so he makes sure they continue to. I hate him. I don't hate many people. He is one.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:01 PM   #127
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Re: Don Imus

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Statements about one person's inability to understand another person's pain are both ignorant and offensive. The mere fact that someone has not experienced something firsthand does not mean they are incapable of understanding it. In fact, if this were so, than education would be meaningless because the point of education is to help us understand those things we have not experiened (Have you been to Antarctica? Know anyone that has? Yet, I bet you understand that it exists).

Much of white america has not experienced racism. That does not mean that the majority of white america cannot understand it. Rather, it is the very attempt to understand it that has created the enviroment neccessary to end the permisiveness of overt racism. For blacks to discredit whites understanding of racism b/c they have not "experienced it" is to end all hope of reconciliation and improvement of race relations.
Well said.

As for people who suggest that the Rutgers team should not be so sensitive, I say this:
Racial comments are not the same as other insults. If somebody calls me a jackass, or a douche bag, it does not imply that I am sub-human. However, in my opinion, racial slurs are meant to degrade a person to the point of being sub-human.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:02 PM   #128
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Racism is still present in America, how should we deal with it?
To some extent, I believe it will always be present. Not everyone is or will be a well-adjusted,educated person who can accept people different from them in appearance and culture as an equal. Rather, there will likely always be some element of society that views those of a different race as inherently "worse" than themselves and the cultural group they themselves belong to. By doing so, these people will have both a scapegoat and built in "feel good" factor (i.e. - no matter how crappy things are at least I'm not a half-puerto rican/half indian mutt).

How do we deal with continued rascism? Time. I firmly believe that eventually, in maybe 4-5 generations, racism will be looked on as an anachronism. I think that, in general, it IS being dealt with. Continued condemnation of overt racism creates an atmosphere where children are exposed, at least publicly, to the notion that racism is wrong and that all people are entitled to respect. Generations of ingrained racism are not going to change in 20 or 30 years. The strides we, as a country, have made since the 1960's are significant. Overt racism is simply not permitted in public settings or by any governmental or other public institution.

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Perhaps Imus should have lost his job, but he lost it for all the wrong reasons. He lost it because of money and image, rather than people consciously trying to deal with the issue..
To say he lost it b/c of money and image is similar to saying that the Civil War was about "states' rights" and not slavery. Yes - sponsers dropped out and cost his employers money and the sponsers dropped out b/c they did not want to be associated with the "image" Imus now carried b/c that would cost them money. BUT underlying the sponser's actions was the understanding that the public would not want to purchase products from companies that condoned the racist remarks.

Make no mistake about it - the ultimate reason for Imus cancellation was the public recognition that racism is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Obviously quite a bit of Americans are uneducated and do not have resources to understand the issues, so I personally think we need to do more to educate people all over the US, so there will be less "bigots". To me the alarming thing is people who are racist but have money and are educated. You would think going through education people will not develop racist views, but that isn't true.
Many of the "educated" people who are running our board rooms and businesses spent there first 20 or so years (say pre-1965ish) in a country that not only permitted racism but in a country where racism was the law of the land. Sure, they had to adapt to changing times, but on a very basic level some of these people were insulated from the popular tide that recognized the inherent unfairness and ultimate wrongness of racism.

In my opinion, it was only in the later 1980's and 90's that overt racism became truly unacceptable in the public forum. As the grandchildren and great grand children of these boomers grow up, fewer and fewer will be taught that racism, in any form is acceptable.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:18 PM   #129
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Re: Don Imus

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Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
As for people who suggest that the Rutgers team should not be so sensitive, I say this:
Racial comments are not the same as other insults. If somebody calls me a jackass, or a douche bag, it does not imply that I am sub-human. However, in my opinion, racial slurs are meant to degrade a person to the point of being sub-human.
I understand that point of view and agree that the use of racial comments are intended to degrade. My response to that, as to the Rutgers team, is not that they are being oversensitive but, rather, that they some of them appear to be claiming injury beyond the actual harm caused.

The original remarks were degrading. Yet, they have been universally condemned (I know I keep coming back to this point, but I think it is significant). It would be one thing if there was even some debate as to whether the remarks were permissible but there isn't. Everyone has turned to these Rutgers players and said "Imus is an ass, ignore him - We don't agree with him AND we think his remarks are hateful and ignorant. We believe you are talented athletes deserving of respect."

In light of the public response to the remarks, one of reassurance and affirmation to the Rutgers players, I cannot see how irreparable harm can have occurred by the remarks.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:20 PM   #130
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Re: Don Imus

I'm pretty optimistic about race relations. We've still got a long way to go before things are perfect, but they're pretty damn good when compared to just a few decades ago or other countries. People focus so much on the negative that they can't see the forest through the trees. Let me put things in perspective:

(1) Not that long ago, blacks couldn't sit in the front of a bus, drink out of certain water fountains, were expressly prohibited from eating at certain establishments, etc.

(2) Just a decade or so ago, an interracial couple wouldn't be able to date openly in many "progressive" areas of the country (let alone the "other" areas) without facing ridicule or worse. I'm in an interracial relationship and I don't ever feel any hostile attitude (okay, save when I visit South Carolina or certain areas of NOLA).

(3) Not that long ago, pop culture was divided between "black pop culture" and "white pop culture." Moreover, there was no mainstream Latino pop culture. Now, it's impossible to separate most aspects of pop culture along racial lines.

(4) For those of you who think racism is bad in America, I suggest you travel. Go to Afghanistan, where you may be beheaded for converting to Christianity. Go to Iraq, where they are not exactly tolerant of outsiders, or even insiders who belong to the wrong "set." Go to the former Yugoslavian republics.....ask them what they think of their neighbors who look just like them. Oh, if you think Western Europe is different, go to just about any place and see how much they love the Turks, Algerians, etc. Or, take a detour to Ireland, where white guys are killing other white guys because some worship a guy in a funny hat and others don't. Or go to Asia, where the Chinese hate the Japanese, the Koreans hate the Chinese and the Japanese, the Malaysians hate the Chinese (their anti-Chinese laws make Jim Crow sound like fun), etc.

So, while we've got a long way to go, we've also come a long way.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:31 PM   #131
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Re: Don Imus

Needless to say 100%, I'm submitting your name to the other mods for a ban. I understand the issue is very sensitive and important, but physical threats are inexcusable. I tried reasoning with you and being polite, but apparently that's not enough. And, before you accuse the mods of being a**holes or racist, I thought I'd let you know that the mod board is very diverse in its racial and politcal makeup.

You could have made your points much more effectively (Saden-style), by debating the matter intelligently and civilly. There's simply no place on this board for threats against other members, whether the person making the threat is black, white, Latino, Asian, etc.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:35 PM   #132
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Re: Don Imus

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He didnt have to...........but I bet his any other race but Black, so, to make a statement that, it doesnt matter cause he's just an ass hole is ignorant, why do you think, ( and as a moderator you should be more senstive) its ok for anyone that is the majority to insult a person of color when this very country was builded off the back of Africans, are serious, I mean its insentive for anyone on here, to say that this was pointed at the whole team and not just black women......bullshit and your full of shit if you support that.......if a blackman or women, said when white people get wet the smell like a funky dog? is that an attack on a race, is that someone just being (an asshole), and if that statement was true, we dont have a right to insult anyone, thats racist bullshit, and I dont care how many times you or anyone try to cover for this biget, Im sure he wouldnt say that shit in front of a blackman, or he'll get his muthaF****** ass whooped, and I still think someone should knock his punks ass out!!!!!! Chew on that for awhile
So to be clear, what you're saying is that the idiotic and indefensible statements Imus and his EP made were directed specifically at the Black women on the team, and was not meant to include the White women on the team? Furthermore, Wolfeskins is as ignorant bigot and I'm an insensitive something or the other?
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:42 PM   #133
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Re: Don Imus

AOL's Jason Whitlock- Time for Jackson, Sharpton to Step Down - AOL Sports

Here's a good read about how this whole thing got blown out of proportion.
And check out Jason Whitlock's, the writer of the article, picture at the top if you want to say that he has no frame of reference on this subject.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:49 PM   #134
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Re: Don Imus

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Let me say this and I'm be done with this stupid ass subject, if anyone of a different race make a comment around me or my wife or kids, I will stomp the **** out of them, and wouldnt think twice about doing............NO BLACK PERSON SHOULD HAVE TO HEAR ANY OF THAT RACIST BULLSHIT FROM ANYONE, and if they do, they deserve an ass whoppin, but I tell you what, I'll PAY ANYONE TO SAY THAT SHIT IN MY FACE, THAT WHY IMUS, PUNK ASS TALKS BEHIND A RADIO, LIKE I SEE MOST PEOPLE TALK BIG SHIT BEHIND THERE COMPUTER,........but that gotdam stateman was not related to (white girls) and if you think so............your no better that that biget
I have absolutely no clue as to what your point is and how it relates to the post you quoted. Are you disagreeing with me and asserting racism will eventually vanish? Are you agreeing with me that overt racism is not tolerated in public and governmental settings? At what point did I assert the remark in question was anything other than a racist/sexist remark? Are you saying I'm a bigot?
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:53 PM   #135
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Re: Don Imus

In the context of the entire conversation, which I heard at some point when this story first broke but haven't heard since, I think Imus was joking that the team looked very manly. At one point he said they looked like the Toronto Raptors.
That being said, I think someone could argue that he was talking about the entire team. I personally don't think that he was referring to everyone, but I could see someone thinking that.

Here's a transcript.
There are definitely strong racial aspects to it, but I think he's being sexist more than anything else.
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