Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

We have a rare thing in this country. It's Freedom. Something most of the world knows nothing about. As long as we don't get crazy, we can do whatever we want. No hassles. No check points. No illegal searches. No "disappearing citizens" without explanation. The down side of that has been demonstrated several times in the last few years. We saw it again yesterday at the campus of Virginia tech.
NO amount of police, security, Crisis planning, Govt intervention, listening devices, etc will GUARANTEE this (and things like it) cannot happen again.
The question is, HOW MUCH are we willing to give up to try?
How much of our PRECIOUS freedom are we willing to sacrifice to safeguard against what COULD happen.
Not to plagiarize Schneed, but do we really want to live our lives around the 1%????

Exactly.

What if the guy lit a can of gasoline and killed people...what, we ban cans of gas? Everyone must buy electric lawnmowers?

The gun did nothing wrong. It is an instrument for good used by a bad person, just as a car, a hammer, a chainsaw, ANYTHING else could be.

We shouldn't make excuses for him like he wasn't hugged or we don't "treat" the mentally-derranged well enough. He made the decision to kill people. He and ONLY he is to blame. We shouldn't start firing the police chiefs and school administrators (although they did make mistakes) because of one psycho's decision to kill people. Also, we should not take away the freedoms guaranteed to every citizen by the 2nd Amendment because of a criminal. Taking away guns won't stop people like this, it will only make their job easier and more "successful". When the government takes away our ability to defend ourselves, it will make the task of stripping any andevery other freedom very easy.

cpayne5 · 04-17-2007, 12:24 PM

The girl killed in the dorm (Emily) grew up in the same place Daseal & I did. I knew her and her older sister fairly well a few years back, but lost touch as we got older. My parents run a softball league out here and both sisters played. Their father helped coach. Good people. Very sad.

BleedBurgundy · 04-17-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Well, that's sorta the point I was making.

Anytime something like this happens you always hear the question being asked -- what if just one person had access to a firearm to defend him or herself?

I think it's a legitimate question.

I couldn't agree more. I don't want to start an argument in a thread about something so tragic but if this country encouraged RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, losers like this guy would feel a little less safe in randomly attacking the public. Had one kid or teacher in those rooms been carrying a firearm who's to say the number of dead and wounded wouldn't be reduced. People get scared when they think of others carrying weapons, and understandably so, but in a scenario where only the criminals carry guns, responsible citizens lose every time.

BleedBurgundy · 04-17-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I've never really bought into the whole, "if only more people had more guns we could solve the problems caused by people having guns" argument. It sounds a lot like circular logic. Moreover, although the NRA hates to admit it, the police almost always oppose laws to effect such ideas.

But, I'm not so concerned about how to solve the gun problem. I'm just more upset for all the victims and their families.

Put like that, it is circular logic. Put like this, it's not: Guns are a reality. Because of their desire to take advantage of others and put themselves in a position of superiority, criminals will always have guns. Because of this fact, it is only responsible for a law abiding citizen to have an equal means of protecting his or herself from attack. Were we living in a vacuum that we could outlaw guns entirely and ensure that NO ONE had them, then yes I could completely agree with your point, absolutely. But it's too late for that now, there's millions of firearms in circulation and you have to act accordingly. Also... there's the 2nd amendment which is an entirely separate issue.

RobH4413 · 04-17-2007, 01:37 PM

This is an except from an e-mail I received by a good friend of mine. He was the guy I was worried about initially (the engineering major) in the thread. I felt that his thoughts/feelings were something worth sharing to the board. He was in the building 100ft away from where the 2nd shooting took place.

Quote:

The 5 people sat in one corner of our classroom by themselves. After sever tense moments, a friend and I approached the two girls who were crying, and we each began comforting them. I rubbed the girl’s back, had someone get her some water, and just began talking to her. After a few minutes she was able to start talking things out and eventually she was able to tell us what had happened. I will retell the girl’s story as it was engraved in my mind: She was in a classroom in Norris, seated near the door, when she heard gunshots fired in the hall. Her and the student next to her got up and peaked their heads out the door to see what the noise was. They saw the gunman, and he turned and saw them. He raised the gun and pointed it at them as he walked toward them. They quickly slammed the door shut and barricaded themselves in with desks. They stood at the door and held it shut along with a number of other students. The gunman attempted to enter, and when he couldn’t, he fired two rounds into the door—none of which penetrated completely through the door. (Later the business woman who was escorted into our room would show us a fragment of the bullet she had pulled from the door). The girl said she could hear him running through the halls firing rounds, reloading, and firing more. A while later, SWAT team members came into their classroom and began evacuating people out and bringing them to Randolph hall where I was held in lock down. As she was being escorted through the halls, she saw several dead bodies on the ground and blood throughout the halls.

The girl told me that when she saw the shooter, she saw his face. She saw that he was sad, and she told me that she actually felt sorry for him. This didn’t hit me right away, because at that time, everything was very chaotic. But after returning home later in the day and realizing the magnitude of this incident, I began to think about the girl’s story and how personal this really was. I realized that this girl literally starred down the barrel of a 9mm handgun, but she looked beyond it and saw the man holding it. She had mercy on this man as he was threatening her life with his very presence. For the rest of the day, the death toll climbed, and I kept thinking about the victims, their families, and how this would affect the world’s view of the school that I call my home. But still more, I thought about the gunman. This is a person who cracked. We have no idea what the motive was or even who this man is.

I want to say this; when the media releases the name of this man, say a prayer for him by name. Say a prayer for his family by name. Do not curse him, though you may curse this event. As Christians—as people—we are called to be merciful. I want to be as merciful as the girl I sat with in Randolph today. I know I will be filled with this inevitable feeling of anger, and maybe hatred toward this man when they announce his name, but I will put that aside, and I will ask God to bless the family that survives him. God loves this man as much as He loves the people he killed. So let us not pray for the 32 victims and the single gunman, instead let us pray for the 33 human souls that met God today.

Thank you for all of your prayers. I know a lot of you tried contacting me and were unable to get a hold of me because of the jammed cellular circuits, so I’m sorry if I have been unable to respond to all of you. I have been bombarded with voicemails, text messages, instant messages, emails, and facebook posts. I’m blessed to have so many people who are concerned about me, and I cherish that even more on a day like today.

Pray for Virginia Tech as a whole community. It is a beautiful place that has never seen anything like this before this year, and I can’t wait until we are all able to enjoy being out on the gorgeous campus without looking over our shoulders or starring down the suspicious person we see walking towards us. Pray that people, when they are done morning, are able to look past this tragedy and try to find the good that God has waiting for our campus.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 04-17-2007, 01:37 PM

I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 04-17-2007, 01:46 PM

ROB- that is a vey moving email thank you so much for passing it on

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy.

That's ridiculous. If TV and games had that much of an influence on society, these crimes would be commonplace, not a horrifying exception. Someone with a mental issue may be unable to distinguish reality from a virtual "killing", but you can't blame the game or TV show. I'm sure there have been psychotic people who have gotten a murder idea from a book before, so should be ban books too?

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Not that anyone has, but how can anyone blame American culture for this tragedy when the kid was a resident alien from South Korea? I highly doubt that American culture turned this kid overnight from a "normal" one into a mass murderer.

Yes, if he was so appalled by our culture, he would not have come here to take advantage of our education system.

Has anyone considered though, that if he did this because he hated America, that possibly the professors at the school he shot up actually put the propoganda in his head? College professors are being well-known for preaching political propaganda instead of the actual class subject and MOST of them are anti-American.

I'm not blaming anyone else but him for his cowardly acts of violence, there is NO justification for it...but I am hearing a lot about him doing this because of some notes he wrote about hating America or our culture.
ABC News: Killer's Note: 'You Caused Me to Do This'

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-17-2007, 02:02 PM

Buster, I just deleted my post that you quoted since he has apparently been in the States since the age of 9.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 02:08 PM

That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

ArtMonkDrillz · 04-17-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.

Monkeydad · 04-17-2007, 02:20 PM

Weird twist: he had "ISMAIL X" written in red ink on his arm.

Here's what I could find about the meaning: "The reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so."

04-17-2007, 12:24 PM	#137
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,804	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting The girl killed in the dorm (Emily) grew up in the same place Daseal & I did. I knew her and her older sister fairly well a few years back, but lost touch as we got older. My parents run a softball league out here and both sisters played. Their father helped coach. Good people. Very sad.

04-17-2007, 01:37 PM	#141
artmonkforhallofamein07 HST - "Hey Rube" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Charleston , SC Posts: 3,908	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy. __________________ Robert Griffin III welcome to the Washington Redskins! Year 1 - NFC EAST Champions at 10-6 Year 2 - Comeback player of the year??? 12-4??? Divisional round playoff game at home??? Superbowl??? 8-8 or worse??? We just have to wait impatiently to find out. http://site.fandangoracinginc.com/

04-17-2007, 01:46 PM	#142
artmonkforhallofamein07 HST - "Hey Rube" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Charleston , SC Posts: 3,908	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting ROB- that is a vey moving email thank you so much for passing it on __________________ Robert Griffin III welcome to the Washington Redskins! Year 1 - NFC EAST Champions at 10-6 Year 2 - Comeback player of the year??? 12-4??? Divisional round playoff game at home??? Superbowl??? 8-8 or worse??? We just have to wait impatiently to find out. http://site.fandangoracinginc.com/

04-17-2007, 02:02 PM	#145
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting Buster, I just deleted my post that you quoted since he has apparently been in the States since the age of 9.

04-17-2007, 02:08 PM	#147
Monkeydad Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 34 Posts: 14,884	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions. He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

04-17-2007, 02:20 PM	#150
Monkeydad Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 34 Posts: 14,884	Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting Weird twist: he had "ISMAIL X" written in red ink on his arm. Here's what I could find about the meaning: "The reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so."

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Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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