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Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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Old 04-17-2007, 08:32 PM   #181
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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So illigals should have the right to food stamps, assisted housing, etc...
No I should have included the phrase "people here legally". Illegals should be sent back.
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Old 04-17-2007, 08:44 PM   #182
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:07 PM   #183
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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Originally Posted by Lady Brave View Post
Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.

Thank you, this was very informative.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:11 PM   #184
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

Great Post!
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Originally Posted by Lady Brave View Post
Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:37 PM   #185
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

I will add this though. VA is a full POC (point of contact). Which means that they require all applicants to submit to a background check by the state for all firearms transfers/purchases. It is much better for the state to conduct the background checks than relying on NICS. NICS is somewhat limited in their access to state court records. They rely on us to notify them of someone who has committed an offense at the state level which might qualify as a federal prohibitor.

If some states aren't notifying NICS of these offenses then there can be problems. For example, someone convicted of a domestic violence offense may slip through the cracks if the state didn't notify NICS of the conviction. So the applicant could travel to another state where they only perform a NICS check by the dealer calling the 1-800 number. If NICS has not been notified of the conviction then viola, the wife beater now has gun. If all the states contributed their records to NICS like they should be, then those convictions would be in the national database and I would be alerted to that person's record in another state and possibly be able to deny them.

How background checks are performed vary state to state and all the various laws between the feds and the states can drive you crazy. But we are doing the best we can.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:23 AM   #186
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

probably the most emotional i have gotten during this whole time is the story about the romanian-israeli professor who was a holocaust survivor. he was put into camp when he was just a kid and has already had to deal with so much in his life. his class heard the gunshots, so he barricaded the door with his desk to let his class escape from the windows 2 stories above. this man was 76 years old holding the barricade, and he died doing so to save their lives. RIP to him and all who died yesterday.

i attended the memorial, which brought everyone closer and helped to start the recovery process, i was about 10 rows back from the speakers which included president bush, governor kaine, and a very charismatic english professor who brought us to end the ceremony with us all chanting "lets go hokies" louder than ever. truely a special occasion and one i will never forget
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:50 AM   #187
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

Did anyone notice that the Nationals wore VT hats tonight in their game vs. the Braves? Awesome. I'm not normally a Hokie fan, but I sure am right now.
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Old 04-18-2007, 04:54 AM   #188
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

This has probably already been touched on, but I don't care. I don't feel like reading, I feel like venting.
Gun Control laws only work on those who abide by the law. So its hindering good citizens from obtaining weapons in a timely manner. As a consumer when I want something I want it now, not in a month or two. It is my constitutional right to bear arms damn it! Some people like their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, I like to own weapons. Does anyone have to wait in a line fill out forms and get their background checked If they want to say something, or if they want to go to church and pray? No, but I have to if I want to go hunting or I want something for home protection.

"Sir, why do you want to purchase this firearm?" Just in case some idiot decides to roll up in my house or office and tries to shoot me for no reason other than anger! I got a wife and 4 kids to look out for! That's why!

I know that that guy followed the laws and legally purchased his weapons. More laws were not going to stop him. He devised a plan, waited patiently, and then executed it. More gun control laws just mean that the next guy has to be a little more patient. Or he can just say the hell with it and purchase it illegally. The point is you are not going to stop a determined person from their goal especially if they don't give a damn.
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:03 AM   #189
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

Giving lots of "consumers" guns is not a good idea. People who think this would have never happened if everyone walked around with guns isn't thinking about the other million problems that would cause.
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:01 AM   #190
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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Giving lots of "consumers" guns is not a good idea. People who think this would have never happened if everyone walked around with guns isn't thinking about the other million problems that would cause.

Im one of millions of consumers who already have guns. I'll carry one more often given the recent days events. Its a tool. I personally believe the laws and requirements to qualify someone to carry a weapon at all should be tightened a bit... to ensure that armed people DO have some sense, but people who are able to shoulder some of the burden for public protection should be more encouraged to do so.

It is not the governments responsibility to be everywhere at all times, and they cannot be... and if they were we would not be a free nation anyway...
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Old 04-18-2007, 10:45 AM   #191
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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Originally Posted by Lady Brave View Post
Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.
I don't think that its a federal law that non citzens can purchase guns its a state by state issue. No one can by a gun in NY so thats why I think its a sttate issue
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:01 AM   #192
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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This kid was definitely twisted......click on the link below and you can see the plays he wrote...

Cho Seung-Hui's Plays - News Bloggers
I'm sorry if you can call that creative writing and if this is what goes on in those classes it no wonder some kids turn out the way they do. I would have never even thought of turning in something like that to a teacher and for a college "Of Higher Learning?" to acept this crap as writing is total BS. I hear about all this liberal BS that our colleges except as art and its a wonder that things are not any worse than they are. It is just disrespectful to even turn something like that into to an adult and for a teacher of " So Called Higher Learning" its scary.
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:01 AM   #193
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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probably the most emotional i have gotten during this whole time is the story about the romanian-israeli professor who was a holocaust survivor. he was put into camp when he was just a kid and has already had to deal with so much in his life. his class heard the gunshots, so he barricaded the door with his desk to let his class escape from the windows 2 stories above. this man was 76 years old holding the barricade, and he died doing so to save their lives. RIP to him and all who died yesterday.

i attended the memorial, which brought everyone closer and helped to start the recovery process, i was about 10 rows back from the speakers which included president bush, governor kaine, and a very charismatic english professor who brought us to end the ceremony with us all chanting "lets go hokies" louder than ever. truely a special occasion and one i will never forget
WORD. That was a truly noble and selfless act. He gave his life for others. Respect!

RIP to all the victims.
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:08 AM   #194
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

No offense, but I don't think the plays are that deviant as people say it is. It's just a lot of cursing.
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:14 AM   #195
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Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

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Im one of millions of consumers who already have guns. I'll carry one more often given the recent days events. Its a tool. I personally believe the laws and requirements to qualify someone to carry a weapon at all should be tightened a bit... to ensure that armed people DO have some sense, but people who are able to shoulder some of the burden for public protection should be more encouraged to do so.

It is not the governments responsibility to be everywhere at all times, and they cannot be... and if they were we would not be a free nation anyway...
Could not agree more Tuna
and NICE post as well HESS

I am a life-time hunter, sportsman, shooter, (conquerer of small countries), etc, as several generations were in my family before me.
I would REALLY hate to see legal gun ownership go away in this country. That would make me an outlaw. I do not believe for a minute that would solve any of our problems with guns either.
HOWEVER, I would not have problem with a more thorough, reasonable, productive investigative process to weed out some problem children.
In reading Anrgy's......vent, one thing that make things simple when purchasing a firearm is the "right to carry permit". I have one, which came with a background check before they issued it. One of the things it affords me is the ability to purchase with NO waiting period. Naturally it cost a couple of hundred bucks to get there. This will not appeal so some for that reason. If the Fed could get behind some type of universal program with the states of this type. This might go along way to solving some of the obvious probs and placate the sporting community as well.
It would have to be a REAL departure for the Fed to adopt a USEFUL plan that is not all window dressing, like the assault weapons ban. This was completely useless and purely a political move.
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