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Old 05-17-2007, 12:19 PM   #61
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

Hey the guy said he was sorry and had asked forgiveness from God and the Bible says He is Faithful and Just to forgive us our sins, and the guy asked the forgivness of people as well.

Each of us has said something so terrible and hateful and utterly wicked to someone or about someone in our lives and it's only the Grace of God the Media didn't here it and hang us on a cross becuase of it.

I just thought my friend Deseal's comment was too nasty for what I beleive to be the way to post around here. That's all. I wasn't saying the Beatles were bigger than Jesus or anything like that. I just said what I said and now all this. Doh! I started channeling John Lennon again

lol

Talk is cool and so is this thread.
peace and bbq grease!
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:30 PM   #62
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Originally Posted by Daseal View Post
Offiss, I don't think anyone here can claim to be an expert on the bible. People dedicate their lives to reading and understanding such large and archaic pieces of work. However, there are basic rules in every religion. Most all of the big religions are the same:
1) Do unto others.
2) Don't lie.
3) Don't kill.
etc.

I mean, basically what someone would consider a 'good' person. I feel a majority of the world fills that criteria. And in all honesty, do you feel Falwell did? AMD put a solid list of many of the awful things that have happened under him. Has he done some good in his life, sure. Faith is what each individual makes of it, in my opinion.

At first I was very upset at the closing of the thread, but that's changed and I can definitely see why it was closed.

Well if you believe the feel good religion philosophy, which is not what the bible teaches, yes main stream religion is exactly that, be a good person and you will go to heaven, but that is not what the bible teaches, the bible is filled with ugly language about hell and the cosequences of sin, and that is what people don't want to hear about, so speak on them is to be persecuted by all who just want to hear that the sky is always blue, alway's say please and thank you, and there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow, when the fact is thats just not true. Hell is a real place.


Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

"14": Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Psalms-9-"17": The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Mark-9-"43": And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"44": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"45": And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"46": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"47": And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

"48": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



According to the bible there is only one way to avoid this end.



John-14-"6": Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John-3-"3": Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:40 PM   #63
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Originally Posted by offiss View Post
Well if you believe the feel good religion philosophy, which is not what the bible teaches, yes main stream religion is exactly that, be a good person and you will go to heaven, but that is not what the bible teaches, the bible is filled with ugly language about hell and the cosequences of sin, and that is what people don't want to hear about, so speak on them is to be persecuted by all who just want to hear that the sky is always blue, alway's say please and thank you, and there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow, when the fact is thats just not true. Hell is a real place.


Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

"14": Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Psalms-9-"17": The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Mark-9-"43": And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"44": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"45": And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"46": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"47": And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

"48": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



According to the bible there is only one way to avoid this end.



John-14-"6": Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John-3-"3": Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Offiss, these are very powerful scriptures.

This may open up a whole new can of worms on this thread.

I think for the individual that believes the Bible or should I say believes in the Bible, these scriptures are irrefutable.
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:51 PM   #64
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:58 PM   #65
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.
Yeah, but that's called being crazy, not simply having a 'different' interpretation. There are lots of things the Bible is open to interpretation on, but getting into heaven is cut and dry:

You want in heaven, you gotta believe in Christ, that's it. Point blank.

The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:18 PM   #66
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.
I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:37 PM   #67
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.
Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:44 PM   #68
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

schneed, you know the old saying, "if you keep saying something long enough, soon you start to believe it". even if its not true. this might sound stupid, but as a 45 year old man, im not really sure what i believe. it seems like it changes all the time
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:47 PM   #69
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.
Respectfully no.


1 corinthians-2-"13": Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing'> spiritual things with'> spiritual.

The bible was written in such a way that you can come to just about any conclusion you want. But there is a guideline which God has given as to how to go about studying the bible, God has laid out in the scripture above that guidline, the bible is a spirtual book so when we study the bible all conclusions that we may come to have to coincide with what the rest of the bible has to say it's a golden thread that runs throw the bible. So for someone to pull one verse and say this is what this means is not neccasarily right, that conclusion has to square with everything else the bible has to say, if it doesn't then you have to continue to search for a deeper meaning.

For example: The verse John 3:16 [the worlds favorite verse] "16'>": For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Many, many, religions use this verse to say God came to save the whole world. But as we read the bible that theory flies in the face of everything else the bible has to say on the subject, for instance a verse I quoted earlier, Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: How can so many people be going to hell if God came to save the world? Well he didn't come to save the world but individuals who he has choosen.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Ephesians, chapter 1-"5": Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


John, chapter 1-"13": Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What main stream religion has done is created a feels good gospel, go to church, be kind to people, and you will get to heaven, UTTER NONESENSE! Only God can save an individual, not church, not good works, and not in ourselves can anyone be saved.


Ephesians, chapter 2-"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:00 PM   #70
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.
Fair enough. Actually, this is a pretty accurate description of my beliefs approximately 15 or so years ago.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:12 PM   #71
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Fair enough. Actually, this is a pretty accurate description of my beliefs approximately 15 or so years ago.
Interesting to see that things changed for you. I plan to always keep an open mind about it. Maybe something will compell me to make the leap of faith in the future, and forget the fact that there's just no scientific evidence. Who knows.

As of now though, I'm too hung up on the no evidence thing.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:12 PM   #72
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

As for the second part of your question Dmek, ultimatly any religion that is not of God and the bible is a religion onto themselves not just Islam, they are all heading to the same place Hell, and there is where it gets touchy, everyone believes they have the truth, but there is only one truth and one salvation plan.


Hebrews, chapter 2-"3": How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So as for muslims in particular? They need salvation just as much as any other false religion, Are they the most hostile religion? Yes, not all are as hostile or extreme as what we see on the news everyday, but you sure don't see other muslims coming out against these extremists keeping their house in order per say.

As for killing, there is a difference between killing and murdering, God has given authority to the gov't or whomever presides over the people to justifidly take life, as the bible says,


Romans, chapter 13-"1": Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

"2": Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"3": For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

"4": For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The sword in the bible is used for killing so there are certain situations where killing is acceptable to God, for instance the military as you fight for your country in a war, or the execution of a criminal, but the gov't has a tremendous resposibility not to misuse that authority, the gov't in no wise can break gods laws, example: they have the right to take life but if that right is used to murder than they will come under Gods wrath no different than any one of us.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:22 PM   #73
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

Offiss - Just one comment.

Christianity consistently says that it is the "sure and certain hope of salvation". Thus, in acknowledging its surety and certainty of salvation, it also recognizes that is a "hope" and not a provable event.

Another one of those contradictions that makes you go "hmmmmm"
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:35 PM   #74
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Well if you believe the feel good religion philosophy, which is not what the bible teaches, yes main stream religion is exactly that, be a good person and you will go to heaven, but that is not what the bible teaches, the bible is filled with ugly language about hell and the cosequences of sin, and that is what people don't want to hear about, so speak on them is to be persecuted by all who just want to hear that the sky is always blue, alway's say please and thank you, and there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow, when the fact is thats just not true. Hell is a real place.


Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

"14": Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Psalms-9-"17": The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Mark-9-"43": And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"44": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"45": And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

"46": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"47": And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

"48": Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



According to the bible there is only one way to avoid this end.



John-14-"6": Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John-3-"3": Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nice post O,
THAT's my belief
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:09 PM   #75
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Re: Group Coerced Censorship

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Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.
This is also exactly how I believe. The bible is a book of fables used to teach lessons about morality. Most of the 'western' religions are practically the same values regurgitated. Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in overall the same thing, just different prophets and different stories.
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