Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

Mattyk · 07-09-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

How is it a conflict of interest when health care already is a private industry? I guess I don't see health care as a right...you are asking someone that is highly trained to help you. Just like you ask a mechanic to fix your car.

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 04:20 PM

I will have to do more looking into it but i would like the government to provide a healthcare plan and the people have the option to switch to private, either by their employer or self. Now I would feel a tax break would be in line for those on private healthcare but it is a luxury so it shouldn't be substancial. I would like this form to be implemented in the next 5-9 years. I really need to look at the plans of barack and hilary to decide which one makes more sense. I know hilary is saying she'll have it done by 2016 and obama is saying 2012. Kucinich is one person all for complete universal healthcare only but he has no chance at this election. I would like to see a private and universal healthcare system first and see how it works and possibily transition to a non-privatized industry.

All this saying, there should be more govt regulation over the private healthcare systems regardless.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

Agreed. Now again, i don't know how much moore was twisting but everywhere he went financial considerations were not taken. The british doctor said he would hate his job if he had to take that consideration. Doesn't it just sound like a better society? People being able to be treated for their health related problems without having to worry about money. If the government is to regulate anything it is our safety, education of our future, and our health. Really what is more important?

And again our safety can be privatized as well as our education so i have no problem allowing people to have private healthcare, so long as those that cannot afford it have a healthcare system that will take care of them when they need it.

Why do we need a middleman. Treatment shouldn't be from the doctor to the insurance company then to the patient. Insurance companies shouldn't have to decide. Your treatment should be choosen by you and your doctor. Whats best for you and your health. I don't understand why we are the only country in the top 25 industrialized countries that doesn't have universal healthcare. I can't say we are right and everyone is wrong. As moore says, we need to take something from each healthcare system around the world that works. We don't need to copy a whole system but take what each country does best and put it together. Make it the american system.

Mattyk · 07-09-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

Bacause he has done nothing to help the situation, nor would he donate his money to help the situation. He has already shown this to be true with other issues.

He's helped to bring this critical issue back to the front burner.

And he gives significant portions of the revenue from these movies to the appropriate charities.

Mattyk · 07-09-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Agreed. Now again, i don't know how much moore was twisting but everywhere he went financial considerations were not taken. The british doctor said he would hate his job if he had to take that consideration. Doesn't it just sound like a better society. People being able to be treated for their health related problems without having to worry about money? If the government is to regulate anything it is our safety, education of our future, and our health. Really what is more important?

I know this point may have been oversimplified in the movie but yeah, how much better of a society could we be if people didn't have the stresses of the costs involved with health care?

If you are sick you should be able to seek treatment without having to worry about what it's going to cost you. The stories in the movie of the old guy working at the supermarket just for benefits for him and his wife, and the man and woman who had to sell their house and move in with their daughter due to all the debt they had from health costs really just breaks your heart.

saden1 · 07-09-2007, 05:11 PM

With the way we're spending money and mortgaging the future the question we should ask ourselves is not should we have a national healthcare but rather can we afford to have a national healthcare program.

Head of U.S. Government Accountability Office:

70Chip · 07-09-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

With the way we're spending money and mortgaging the future the question we should ask ourselves is not should we have a national healthcare but rather can we afford to have a national healthcare program.

Head of U.S. Government Accountability Office:

Man, that sucks. But I still feel that the most basic of services is not being provided. Even if this is not a possibility today I still want the wheels to start turning. This has to be done in the next 20 years. All countries can do it, why can't the greatest country in the world do it?

That guy beats around the bush to much too. I like how he clearly is against medicaid and Social Security but refers to them as "tough decisions". I also like how the war ONLY takes up 100 Billion a year.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

Very true. Greed is a horrible thing in a society. However, this is reason for more regulation

jsarno · 07-09-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.

Quote:

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

jsarno · 07-09-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He's helped to bring this critical issue back to the front burner.

I'd like to see food be cheaper since it's getting so expensive...I'd also like to see filtered water be cheaper...or free even since we need it DAILY to survive. We have too much polution in our water, so I see this as more of an issue. Since when should a small bottle of clean water cost $1 or more? You need 8 of those a day to survive. (probably less to "survive", but that is what is recommended) That would be $2920 a year in just water. Why is no one complaining about that? I have only had to go to the doctor 1 time in the past 8 years and it cost me a $30 co-pay.
Sure, I will admit, the health care costs are out of control...but a lot of it is yet again OUR FAULT! We are a sue happy country and the outrageous insurance rates make our rates higher. Maybe the government should step in and control water / food / insurance rates on houses and cars etc...hell, why not they step in and take over everything under the sun?
Beware of people that think the government should control everything. The less control the government has, the better.

Quote:

And he gives significant portions of the revenue from these movies to the appropriate charities.

I am genuinely asking for a link here, cause it would help change my negative view of him as a money hungry asswipe that preys off of the unfortunate.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.

It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

Also i don't know how it would work but if the employers have built in plans that they spend money on, maybe corporations should be taxed more and that tax would go toward a nationalized health care system. Or companies transfer their savings to their employees. I don't know if that would work but they are saving and they will be able to pay their employees more and the market would adjust. Hopefully with regulation(and yes, doctors not being paid 300,000- which may not be fair) the total price on the health care system will go down.

SmootSmack · 07-09-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.

Damn insulting both my mom and my dad in one fell swoop. Anyhow, my dad and I don't discuss his practice much but my understanding is that he's not better off because of rising health care costs. In fact, it's worse for him.

Is there a doctor in the house?

Mattyk · 07-09-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

I am genuinely asking for a link here, cause it would help change my negative view of him as a money hungry asswipe that preys off of the unfortunate.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/02/news/newsmakers/fahrenheit_charities/

just one example

SmootSmack · 07-09-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/02/news/newsmakers/fahrenheit_charities/

just one example

True, but it appears that the donation was done because it was part of the negotiation in which Disney "forced" them to donate that money. Of course, it's not like Disney did it for selfless reasons. They just didn't want the Weinsteins to profit off of the film

07-09-2007, 04:20 PM	#137
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: College Park; where they chop cars Age: 25 Posts: 5,635	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO I will have to do more looking into it but i would like the government to provide a healthcare plan and the people have the option to switch to private, either by their employer or self. Now I would feel a tax break would be in line for those on private healthcare but it is a luxury so it shouldn't be substancial. I would like this form to be implemented in the next 5-9 years. I really need to look at the plans of barack and hilary to decide which one makes more sense. I know hilary is saying she'll have it done by 2016 and obama is saying 2012. Kucinich is one person all for complete universal healthcare only but he has no chance at this election. I would like to see a private and universal healthcare system first and see how it works and possibily transition to a non-privatized industry. All this saying, there should be more govt regulation over the private healthcare systems regardless. __________________ "For there is nothing half so glorious As to see our team victorious" --UMD Fight Song BSB-2010

07-09-2007, 05:11 PM	#141
saden1 Eternally Legendary Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 33 Posts: 9,734	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO With the way we're spending money and mortgaging the future the question we should ask ourselves is not should we have a national healthcare but rather can we afford to have a national healthcare program. Head of U.S. Government Accountability Office: __________________ RG3, RGIII, RG三, RG३, RGγʹ, RGג, RG٣, RG๓, RG..., RG셋, RGԳ!

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Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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