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Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Old 07-09-2007, 07:56 PM   #136
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by 70Chip View Post
Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.
Very true. Greed is a horrible thing in a society. However, this is reason for more regulation
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:48 PM   #137
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.
I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.

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I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.
It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:58 PM   #138
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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He's helped to bring this critical issue back to the front burner.
I'd like to see food be cheaper since it's getting so expensive...I'd also like to see filtered water be cheaper...or free even since we need it DAILY to survive. We have too much polution in our water, so I see this as more of an issue. Since when should a small bottle of clean water cost $1 or more? You need 8 of those a day to survive. (probably less to "survive", but that is what is recommended) That would be $2920 a year in just water. Why is no one complaining about that? I have only had to go to the doctor 1 time in the past 8 years and it cost me a $30 co-pay.
Sure, I will admit, the health care costs are out of control...but a lot of it is yet again OUR FAULT! We are a sue happy country and the outrageous insurance rates make our rates higher. Maybe the government should step in and control water / food / insurance rates on houses and cars etc...hell, why not they step in and take over everything under the sun?
Beware of people that think the government should control everything. The less control the government has, the better.

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And he gives significant portions of the revenue from these movies to the appropriate charities.
I am genuinely asking for a link here, cause it would help change my negative view of him as a money hungry asswipe that preys off of the unfortunate.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:00 PM   #139
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?
Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

Also i don't know how it would work but if the employers have built in plans that they spend money on, maybe corporations should be taxed more and that tax would go toward a nationalized health care system. Or companies transfer their savings to their employees. I don't know if that would work but they are saving and they will be able to pay their employees more and the market would adjust. Hopefully with regulation(and yes, doctors not being paid 300,000- which may not be fair) the total price on the health care system will go down.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:02 PM   #140
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by 70Chip View Post
Can we not put doctor's up on these huge pedestals please. To me, they are the reason that health care costs have gone through the roof. They have allowed the drug companies to compromise their interests for years now, but nobody wants to call them out. Go to a used bookstore, get a copy of the P.D.R. (physicians desk reference) and you will have enough info to do what 95% of these doctors do all day everyday: prescribe drugs. I haven't been to one since 1992 and I am fit as a fiddle. Eat healthy and exercise, stay away drom doctors, and then we can help out the people who really need treatment for the cancer and such. If something costs too much, don't buy it unless you absolutely have to. Look at anti-biotics. These doctors have caused dangerous new strains of germs to emerge because they have given out anti-biotics like candy since the 1950s. I blame the doctors first and foremost. If they deserved the reputations they seem to have with people, they would have put a stop to this a long time ago. I guess they couldn't find the answer in the P.D.R. so they were stumped. Doctors blow.
Damn insulting both my mom and my dad in one fell swoop. Anyhow, my dad and I don't discuss his practice much but my understanding is that he's not better off because of rising health care costs. In fact, it's worse for him.

Is there a doctor in the house?
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:04 PM   #141
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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I am genuinely asking for a link here, cause it would help change my negative view of him as a money hungry asswipe that preys off of the unfortunate.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/02/news/newsmakers/fahrenheit_charities/

just one example
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:07 PM   #142
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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True, but it appears that the donation was done because it was part of the negotiation in which Disney "forced" them to donate that money. Of course, it's not like Disney did it for selfless reasons. They just didn't want the Weinsteins to profit off of the film
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:07 PM   #143
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?
Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:09 PM   #144
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.
That's called Medicaid.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:13 PM   #145
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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That's called Medicaid.
And that's a good thing to you??
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:16 PM   #146
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.
See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:18 PM   #147
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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And that's a good thing to you??
Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:21 PM   #148
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?
So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:25 PM   #149
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.
Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:28 PM   #150
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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But that shows the wienstein's contribution, not moore's. Moore still made his $$$$ with no contribution. (that I know of)
It was a good link though, thank you.
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