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Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Old 07-09-2007, 09:33 PM   #151
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
But that shows the wienstein's contribution, not moore's. Moore still made his $$$$ with no contribution. (that I know of)
It was a good link though, thank you.
This is pretty funny and was mentioned in the film

Falling On A Bruise: Michael Moore: Guardian Angel
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:49 PM   #152
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?
100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.

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Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough.
It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.

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If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??
Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.

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What would a subpar doctor salary even be?
Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:55 PM   #153
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"
Hold on...I didn't say it didn't have "holes" because some people that need it can't get it. However, when someone does get on it, it is excellent. That was my point.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:59 PM   #154
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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This is pretty funny and was mentioned in the film

Falling On A Bruise: Michael Moore: Guardian Angel
But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:25 PM   #155
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.
It wasn't out of spite, if you saw the movie you would understand the point of why he did it.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:31 PM   #156
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.



It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.



Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.



Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:32 PM   #157
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

So let me get this straight: Some of you are saying that the American Health Care system is working well and doesn't need to be changed and some of you are saying that is blows.
Moore doesn't attack any political party in this film..by the way...he disects the "system" and concludes that it is not working for the MAJORITY of the country.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
Some of you on here are getting mighty "defensive", though.. Hmmm.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:36 PM   #158
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.
Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:37 PM   #159
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.
LOL

classic
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:04 AM   #160
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??
Not sure what the exact numbers are, but according to a few med students I know, there's a big misconception that all doctors are living it up. Neurosurgeons, spinal surgeons, anesthesiologists and a few other specific doctors are compensated well. Most other doctors aren't getting paid their true worth.

Take into account the debt that every doctor incurs- they've got 200K in extra four years of school. After that, they're probably raking in about 35-40K in residencies (where they're staying up every third or fourth night). Being a doctor certainly calls for sacrifice and they should be rewarded way more than many other professions.

Average salaries

I know a doctor who practiced general surgery for 200K a year... told me with all the stress, work hours, etc- it wasn't nearly enough to compensate what they go through. Add malpractice insurance costs, it's no wonder doctors skip to the private sector as soon as possible.

I think there would be a significant drop-off in talent, should the private sector be taken away. Eliminating private hospitals doesn't solve the inefficiency of the general ones. I haven't seen Moore's film yet, but the UK's system isn't perfect. In fact, when I visited London pubs, health care problems were always a topic of conversation. In terms of Cuba, their system is simplified: health care is directed for a healthy work force. There's little to no care for the elderly, extreme illness, mental retardation, etc. Are American families ready to "let go" of their loved ones earlier? Even if we're covered, are we ready to wait an extra six months for a hip replacement? Are we ready to scrap the notion of mental health care? ADD/ADHD are myths in Cuba.

This country has the best medical education institutions, the best doctors and the highest technology (including medical and diagnostic equipment). Why else do so many wealthy people in universal systems rush here for care? (the wait is too long elsewhere). The problem isn't the care itself... it's access. And even then, illegal immigrants receive emergency treatment here. Every person (regardless of class status) can get treated... the discrepancy lies with how long it takes for a poor person to receive treatment or the degree a non-insured is monetarily wiped out after an emergency.

Oh yeah... and I do plan on watching "Sicko" ASAP. Moore's techniques grate my skull, but I think I'm intelligent enough to use his film as part of a larger critique on the system. He's at least done a great service sparking debate. Honestly, there's probably very few people (in both parties) that are probably so misanthropic that they'd really want the poor to die off without proper health care. In a utopian society, I'd want everyone to get treated for unprepared illness and disease without having to live the rest of their lives in debt. We've just got to remember that nothing is ever free... the other countries (EU nations, Canada, etc) don't face the same elements the US has (sheer size, immigration), so they can probably afford to have universal plans that work. It's great to say that the US just needs to scrap the current system, but the pragmatists still have to make it work.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:07 AM   #161
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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and how the hell do you know what his intentions are? just because someone makes money when doing something, doesnt mean they arent trying to do the right thing
I agree. Now you and all your Bush bashing friends can apply this same rule(in spirit) to him.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:15 AM   #162
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.
Well, I just feel that everything in your life, you attracted somehow. Whether be from laziness, or no sense of urgency, or lack of self responsibility, which would describe 99% of all people on assistance.
I would be more than happy to help someone that had a completely random crappy issue happen to them. I would and have helped people that help themselves. I refuse to help people that have a hand out and are unwilling to help themselves and live like there are no repercussions.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:17 AM   #163
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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So let me get this straight: Some of you are saying that the American Health Care system is working well and doesn't need to be changed and some of you are saying that is blows.
Moore doesn't attack any political party in this film..by the way...he disects the "system" and concludes that it is not working for the MAJORITY of the country.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
Some of you on here are getting mighty "defensive", though.. Hmmm.

I think we all know that the health care system has flaws, but to put the government in charge is lunacy.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:29 AM   #164
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.
See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places.
You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:42 AM   #165
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Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places. You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.

This is truly idiotic. Bush didn't even know how bad it was until two days after it happened, and he's the president. The ignorance of this argument I think really demonstrates the narrowness of your thinking on this issue. I am truly truly stunned by your lack of compassion here Jsarno, and I think even the most staunch economic conservative would likely be shook by what you are suggesting.
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