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Let's impeach the president.

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Old 06-01-2007, 12:00 AM   #136
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Originally Posted by angryssg View Post
I have read every post and have a little to say about everything.
Crazyhorse, why is it silly for Bush to denounce Iran?
Smootsmack, I agree.
Robbh4413, I second that.
Gtripp, you're onto something.
Sadden you are correct, but should have elaborated a little bit more.
Dblanche66, wars have been started over many stupid things throughout the years. The Cold war was a competition between Capitalism and Communism. The crusades were over religion and possible riches.
70chip, the only thing that the democrats would end by cutting off the money is the lives of those servicesmembers who would still be stuck over there. Now they would be there without food, and ammunition. So they will continue supporting it financially not because of the political aspect, but because of the threat of iminent danger to American lives without funding.
Bush is denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges. Very few of the people Bush has detained in Gitmo, at Abu Grab, in the Salt Pit of Afghanistan, or in secret prisons in Europe have been charged with anything even after years of detention. Pot calling the kettle black.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:03 AM   #137
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1 View Post
Bush is denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges. Very few of the people Bush has detained in Gitmo, at Abu Grab, in the Salt Pit of Afghanistan, or in secret prisons in Europe have been charged with anything even after years of detention. Pot calling the kettle black.
Could you provide a link of his denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges, and of people being detained by US with no charges brought against them?
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:08 AM   #138
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Could you provide a link of his denouncing Iran for detaining people without charges, and of people being detained by US with no charges brought against them?
Not to quote myself. But I need to clarify "no charges" I mean no valid reason to consider bringing charges
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:08 AM   #139
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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FCK IRAN! THIS IS THE DUMBEST THREAD I'VE EVER POSTED ON! I'm sure if you don't like what the PRESIDENT is doing with those TARDS in iran, they've got plenty of room for you.

Do you support hypocracy from authority? Did you support Clinton's hypocracy? Do you really want people who don't like what the president is doing to be imprisoned? Indefinately, or for how long?
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:28 AM   #140
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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So I guess your saying that the people we are holding that were fighting for the taliban are innocent people? I have not heard about what your posting about so maybe you should have added a link.
Bush denounced Iran on national television and it played repeatedly on all major channels and on virtually every news program.

The people being held are not being held as Taliban or prisoners of war. They are being held without charges as suspected terrorists. We don't whether they're guilty or not. Not only are there no charges, there are almost no trials.

Most of the people seized in Afghanistan and Irag were picked up in blind sweeps (they were picked up at random and no evidence was collected). The idea was to extract information from the torture of people at random.

If people are innocent until proven guilty. Yes. Bush is detaining hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent people, including Canadians and Americans.
After 911, Ashcroft conducted blind sweeps of American Muslims and imprisoned them without charges in New York.

Bush and his people are a disgrace to our country. No doubt about it.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:30 AM   #141
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Clinton was impeached by the House but was acquitted by the Senate.
An impreachment is a trial, not a conviction.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:33 AM   #142
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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I was actually looking at that same link myself.

I guess what I'm really asking is, since the "impeachment" process didn't get approved in both chambers, is it historically correct to say Clinton was impeached?

Furthermore will historians consider Bill Clinton an impeached President or is it a matter of interpreting the Constitution?
He was impeached, which only means he was tried. He wasn't convicted so wasn't removed from office.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:34 AM   #143
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1 View Post
An impreachment is a trial, not a conviction.
Actually it's more like an indictment. I think I explained it pretty well on pg 1. When I read through the following posts the next day I felt like Mr. Hand from Fast Times.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:38 AM   #144
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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I agree a lot of money was spent on the investigation but how many people ended up in jail? This is the same goverment that some want to run our health care.

So, you'd rather insurance companies run health care. On the other hand, maybe you want the free market to run health care, so you could die without treatment if you couldn't afford the payment.

Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:44 AM   #145
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Bush never said that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and even the 9/11 report said that there were links between Iraq and Bin Laden. There were some that said Iraq had no nuclear weapons but UN, Other major countries, most all in congress and senate, Bill Clinton, and many, many more said he did have them. Most of the debate at the time was not rather he had WMD's but was it worth going to war for. Many a politicians want you to think that they were tricked into the war but its just them trying to gt out of what they did.
I don't usually see posts in which everything is absolutely misunderstood or flat out wrong because of disinformation, but here's a case in point.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:46 AM   #146
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

So Crazyhorse, you're what like 65 years old or something right? You lived through our involvement in Korea, the spread of communism, Vietnam, the Soviet-Afghanistan war, Kosovo, etc. How are things different now-with our involvement in other country's affairs-than they were 10, 20, 50 years ago?
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:50 AM   #147
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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This past weekend, I spoke to a former captain who was responsible for the prison system in Baghdad after the Abu Gharaib fiasco. He said that, after AG, the Americans basically cleaned up their act and that his main job was protecting Iraqi prisoners from their Iraqi keepers. The Iraqi had hidden jails, (essentially unventilated, unsanitary warehouses - nothing like what we would consider a prison) in which Iraqis tortured and killed their detainees. The biggest problem he had with his men was that they consistently intervened between the Iraqi "lawful authority" and the detainees in order to save the detainees lives.

My point is that the Iraqi's and us have completely different ideas on what constitutes the rule of law. Human rights apply only to those of your sect b/c only they are human.

While on its face the statement seems hypocritical, in fact, it is not given the vast differences between Iraqi "justice" and American justice.
Bush is still torturing people in Gitmo and in so called secret prisons. He also ships people to Cairo and other places where they can be tortured and/or killed. It's call "rendition."

He also bombed and killed over 50 thousand children with bombs, including cluster bombs, which are banned internationally because they are particularly dangerous to children, sometimes for long after they are dropped.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:55 AM   #148
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1 View Post
Bush is still torturing people in Gitmo and in so called secret prisons. He also ships people to Cairo and other places where they can be tortured and/or killed. It's call "rendition."

He also bombed and killed over 50 thousand children with bombs, including cluster bombs, which are banned internationally because they are particularly dangerous to children, sometimes for long after they are dropped.
War ain't pretty. He's not the first Commander-in-Chief to order bombing attacks, many of which leave behind innocent victims.

By the way, I "love" how you keep saying Bush is torturing, as if he personally is the one going down there.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:07 AM   #149
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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You mean the US Attorneys that the President can fire anytime that he wants to and other presidents have done the same thing. The problem is that Bush should have just come out and said I decided to fire them so that what I did. End of story. The Washington post has done so many stories on Abu Ghraib you would have thought that we were breaking their arms, cutting off fingers, shocking them and all of that bad stuff. Ok, we had a few people do some dumb stuff but that should be the end of the story. What torture techniques that we are using that are so bad Depriving them of sleep, dripping water in their face?
The torture technique we use was first developed by Brazile and then adopted for use by the U.S. at Gitmor and Abu Graib. It is regarded as the most viscious permanently impairing system of torture, both physically and psychologically, in the world. It was demonstrated for Rumsfeld at Gitmo, where Rumsfeld participated in the torture of a prisoner. The Red Cross once reported that two eighty year old men who were both mentally ill at Gitmo we kept in a small cell 24 hours at day lying in their own excretement.

To date, it has produced much destruction and death, but almost no useful information or convictions.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:24 AM   #150
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Re: Let's impeach the president.

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
You definately make some interesting points. I definately agree that law enforcement actions against individuals caught in the U.S. should be conducted in the same manner as other criminal trials. I don't know, however, whether the war on terrorism against individuals overseas is a law enforcement action. The "war on terrorism" is both a law enforcement action and a war.

Also, the military tribunals are nothing new as FDR did them back in WWII - a much more conventional war. Moreover, they are okay with the Supreme Court (the details may need to be worked out in a new case, but they're generally okay with the High Court).
Trials of any kind of prisoners of war by the arresting country are prohibited by the Geneva Conventions, including miliary tribunials of the arresting county. Such trials have to be conducted by neutral countries.
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