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Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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Old 07-25-2007, 08:55 AM   #31
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

So now you guys want us to jump all over them for their work schedule? I am sure that would go over well around the world. For people who complain about how bad a job Bush has done internationally to suggest that we have any right to pass judgement on how their government schedules vacations shows a complete lack of reason. Doing things like that would be overtly empirical to me. We should not be in the business of running their country. That is what we are trying to get out of. I thought it was what you guys wanted too. More than anybody.

By the way, I do agree they should not be taking sucuh vacations but I certainly don't see how the Whitehouse is supposed to call them out on it without it looking like America butting in again. Disappointed? Yes. But that's it.
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:43 AM   #32
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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Hypocrisy dilutes it. For Democrats, who have done almost nothing legislatively and are about to take a month long vacation, to criticize Iraqis for doing the same thing looks a little silly. Reid and Pelosi could stay in town and work. One would think they would feel compelled to do so based on the constant and hysterical claims they make about the danger posed to the Republic by George Bush. They won't though. Again, I think the criticism is valid but I just don't want to hear it from anyone in our congress because they haven't accomplished a whole lot lately either.
Since the Dems are in charge, one would think that's a good thing.
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:48 AM   #33
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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So now you guys want us to jump all over them for their work schedule? I am sure that would go over well around the world. For people who complain about how bad a job Bush has done internationally to suggest that we have any right to pass judgement on how their government schedules vacations shows a complete lack of reason. Doing things like that would be overtly empirical to me. We should not be in the business of running their country. That is what we are trying to get out of. I thought it was what you guys wanted too. More than anybody.

By the way, I do agree they should not be taking sucuh vacations but I certainly don't see how the Whitehouse is supposed to call them out on it without it looking like America butting in again. Disappointed? Yes. But that's it.
Well, since we, the American Taxpayers are footing the bill for this -- to the tune of $12 billion a month -- I think Congress has every right to DEMAND answers on progress in Iraq, and to question the wisdom of taking a month-long vacation while their nation is in peril.

Congress is the body of government most directly answerable to the people, and it's the people's money we're talking about here. You're damn right I have a problem with the Iraqi government slacking off when it's my money being used to fund this bullshit exercise.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:07 AM   #34
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

I have a problem with it too but one argument I keep hearing from lots of people(not you) is that Bush has destroyed our standing around the world with his ham handed foreign relations and diplomacy. When the same people come back and say that the Whitehouse needs to be something about this situation they are directly contradicting themselves on this point. People can't say "Don't interfer around the world and cost us respect" and then in the next senetence say "president bush should be outraged over this, and not a peep from the white house". It's actions like those peeps from the Whitehouse that supposedly has cost us such standing in the world. Again, I am not saying I agree with that stance. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of it.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:14 AM   #35
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

If you ask anyone in any type of leadership in the military they will tell you that setting a time table is only telling your enemy what you are doing. When someone comes out and says we have to set a time table they either are looking for votes or have no clue as what goes on durn battle. I also get a kick of the people who complain that we have no exit strategy like if we did we would announce it to the world. That would be a great idea.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:12 AM   #36
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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If you ask anyone in any type of leadership in the military they will tell you that setting a time table is only telling your enemy what you are doing. When someone comes out and says we have to set a time table they either are looking for votes or have no clue as what goes on durn battle. I also get a kick of the people who complain that we have no exit strategy like if we did we would announce it to the world. That would be a great idea.
But this operation is not an ordinary military exercise. It's not like broadcasting to the Nazis when you plan to move from the Ardennes Forest to Berlin.

If everything is fantastic, the surge is working, and everything's coming up roses like the pro-war crowd is frantically trying to tell us, then there should be no problem setting a date for withdrawal because the Iraqi government should be able to smoothly assume control, and provide adequate security once we leave.

The neo-cons tell us that the media is painting an inaccurate picture of the war, that they "never tell us the good news" from Iraq. But if things are going so well, why will Iraq collapse into an Apocalyptic nightmare the moment we're gone?
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:15 AM   #37
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

I absolutely agree with dmek, saden, and beems about the Iraqi Parliment. They should be working day and night to resolve their differences. We have the right to make such demands as we are pretty much facilitating their very existence. Finally, there is really no comparison to our Congress. If we were in the midst of a civil war or insurgency and our Congress wanted to take that long off, I'd be more than annoyed.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:29 AM   #38
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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If you ask anyone in any type of leadership in the military they will tell you that setting a time table is only telling your enemy what you are doing. When someone comes out and says we have to set a time table they either are looking for votes or have no clue as what goes on durn battle. I also get a kick of the people who complain that we have no exit strategy like if we did we would announce it to the world. That would be a great idea.
Psst, it's no secret that the US would eventually go home. Also, when we start heading home it won't take a genius to deduce we're leaving. We're not going to sneak out of Iraq. Finally, we have done it in the past (Nixon and Vietnam).
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #39
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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Psst, it's no secret that the US would eventually go home. Also, when we start heading home it won't take a genius to deduce we're going leaving. We're not going sneak out of Iraq. Finally, we have done it in the past (Nixon and Vietnam).
Yeah, I don't get the whole "don't announce the timeline" thing either. To be frank, it really baffles me. Exactly how are going to get all those troops and civilians out without anyone noticing?

Besides, we're going to set a timeline one day, right?
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:35 PM   #40
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

I think the thought is more along the lines of not setting a date before we reach a point where we can leave. What happens if we say we're leaving in May '08? The insurgents could lay back and wait until we're gone and then unleash holy hell. If we wait until the situation is firmly under control then we can then say we're leaving in 3 months or whatever.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:03 PM   #41
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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I think the thought is more along the lines of not setting a date before we reach a point where we can leave. What happens if we say we're leaving in May '08? The insurgents could lay back and wait until we're gone and then unleash holy hell. If we wait until the situation is firmly under control then we can then say we're leaving in 3 months or whatever.
So what? They're going to do that whenever we leave anyway.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:21 PM   #42
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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Psst, it's no secret that the US would eventually go home. Also, when we start heading home it won't take a genius to deduce we're leaving. We're not going sneak out of Iraq. Finally, we have done it in the past (Nixon and Vietnam).
Yea and how many people got slaughtered after we left. I'm not saying that its is this big seceret that we will leave but you never show your hand for the other to sit back and wait for it to happen.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:30 PM   #43
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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Yea and how many people got slaughtered after we left. I'm not saying that its is this big seceret that we will leave but you never show your hand for the other to sit back and wait for it to happen.

Show our hand? We don't have many hands left to play. It's a well known fact that the troops are weary and many are now on their second tour and some being extended.

The only hand we have left is to leave. We know it, the Iraquis know it and all the other terrorists know it. I don't think by the U.S. not setting a time table will mitiage the potential violence that will ensue.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:28 PM   #44
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

There's been a lot of talk that we may not have plans to leave and that the DoD is looking to the "Korea model" for how we should deal with Iraq over the long haul. I don't think the Korea model is politically feasible, but who knows.

Let's just say, however, that we do not follow the Korea model and we leave Iraq. If we then get hit with a terrorist attack here or somewhere abroad by terrorists trained in a post-occupation Iraq, who is to blame? My guess is the left will blame it all on Bush for going to Iraq in the first place and the right will blame it all on the dems for pushing for a withdrawal. Thoughts?
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:51 PM   #45
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Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?

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There's been a lot of talk that we may not have plans to leave and that the DoD is looking to the "Korea model" for how we should deal with Iraq over the long haul. I don't think the Korea model is politically feasible, but who knows.

Let's just say, however, that we do not follow the Korea model and we leave Iraq. If we then get hit with a terrorist attack here or somewhere abroad by terrorists trained in a post-occupation Iraq, who is to blame? My guess is the left will blame it all on Bush for going to Iraq in the first place and the right will blame it all on the dems for pushing for a withdrawal. Thoughts?
Is it militarily feasible?

The blame game will always persist but I think the more troubling issue is that somehow people expect to be perfectly safe at all times and if they are not, well then the sky must be falling. We deal with issues in our lives and move on all the time and it's no different with our nation. You don't lock yourself up, become paranoid and drown in your own sorrow. That would constitute depression. You first understand the problem, then confront it and finally try to solve it. Sometimes force is needed to solve an issue but life would be miserable if you're in a constant battle. Relationships are upon compromise and we hardly ever do that. One of the biggest problem our nation faces is it's pride in itself and somehow if you have a different view point you're inferior. The "we're always right and we know what's best" disease if you will.
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