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Old 08-09-2007, 10:12 PM   #106
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Re: smokers tax

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
We were not discussing food in general, we were discussing fast food. So, you're above quote is perplexing. You should have asked, "OK, stop eating fast food right now. Do not eat any fast food ever again, see what happens to you." I would suppose if you stopped eating fast food altogether, you'd probably be a more healthy individual and, for some, you'd probably be a hell of a lot thinner.

Also, I said cigarettes and fast food are analogous, not identical. Both have an adverse effect on the general health of the population, regardless of whatever few redeeming qualities each has. If the reason for taxing cigarettes is that they have an adverse effect on the population, I see no reason why one should simultaneously oppose taxing fast food.

Finally, it appears that a fast food tax may be on the horizon in some cities.
Detroit mayor proposes tax on fast-food - May. 9, 2005
Nutritionists advocate fast food tax to stem diabetes epidemic
No, I shouldn't have.
Again, food is a REQUIREMENT for survival. Cigarettes are not.
You also ASSUME that all "fast food" is bad for you, and that is flat out not true.
A flame grilled Burger at Burger King is not something that I see as bad for you. Hell, you will grill out at home, does this mean all beef should be taxed?
How about a grilled Chicken sandwich? Should all chicken be taxed now?
Your argument of comparing food to cigarettes is weak at best.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:14 PM   #107
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Re: smokers tax

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Schneed,

You raise all fair points. I don't pretend to know all of the answers and I never said the study's conclusion was 100% accurate (though it might be). I just think that before people start making arguments as to why smoking should be heavily taxed on economic/tax grounds, we should know that it causes a net increase in government spending.
True, but I'm assuming that we the people derive some sort of benefit from that increase in spending. That money either goes to reduce the deficit or funds government programs. Sure, all government spending is inefficient, but inefficient is not synonymous with worthless.
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:15 PM   #108
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Re: smokers tax

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I believe the context of the discussion is taxing fatty/fast food, not food in general...and by the logic being used here one can argue that you don't NEED fatty food to sustain you. You could do with fruits and veggies and live a healthy and happy life. In any case, according to NIH approximately 440,000 people die from smoking and about 280,000 die from obesity related illness (the latest stats I could find).
Yes but the context here is whether fatty food is inherently bad. It is not. Cigarettes are inherently bad. There's no realistic argument being made or that can be made that they are unharmful and even healthy in one way or another. Fatty food on the other hand can sustain you and can be part of a well balanced diet It is not needed but it is not simply bad unquestionably. Cigarettes are.

SSG. To me cigarettes are more analogous to illegal drugs than to fast food.
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:17 PM   #109
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Re: smokers tax

BTW. I gotta say this is a fantastic discussion. I see a lot of SSG's points and some of them are compelling. I certainly have been swayed at least a little.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:14 AM   #110
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Re: smokers tax

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Yes but the context here is whether fatty food is inherently bad. It is not. Cigarettes are inherently bad. There's no realistic argument being made or that can be made that they are unharmful and even healthy in one way or another. Fatty food on the other hand can sustain you and can be part of a well balanced diet It is not needed but it is not simply bad unquestionably. Cigarettes are.

SSG. To me cigarettes are more analogous to illegal drugs than to fast food.
I believe anything that contributes to premature death is inherently bad. I think the movie Super Sized Me showed us how bad fatty food really is. As always moderation is key to life. The more you smoke the sooner you die, the more crap you eat the sooner you die.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:15 AM   #111
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Re: smokers tax

I surrender jsarno, fried chicken, french fries, whoppers and mcnuggets are essential to life, healthy, have contributed immemsely to this nation's great diet and health, and will make your manhood grow 12 inches. Thank you for showing how I am "grasping for straws" and how my argument was "weak at best."

I have said from the get-go that fast food and cigarettes are not identical. But, to say that one can draw no comparisons whatsoever between the two is, in my mind, more than stubborn and intellectually dishonest. I guess I don't get the "cede no ground to 'the other side'" approach to discussing things.

In any event, has the pre-season started? I can't wait to start talking about football.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:20 AM   #112
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Re: smokers tax

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
I surrender jsarno, fried chicken, french fries, whoppers and mcnuggets are essential to life, healthy, have contributed immemsely to this nation's great diet and health, and will make your manhood grow 12 inches. Thank you for showing how I am "grasping for straws" and how my argument was "weak at best."

If you're gonna give up, then fine, but at least quote me correctly. I referred to a FLAME BROILED burger, and a GRILLED chicken. I said nothing of French Fries and McNuggets.
If you actually understood your argument was weak, then we'd be on the right path, but you can't say all fast food is bad, nor can you refer to something that is essential for life with something that is a detriment to life. It makes no sense.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:24 AM   #113
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Re: smokers tax

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If you actually understood your argument was weak, then we'd be on the right path, but you can't say all fast food is bad, nor can you refer to something that is essential for life with something that is a detriment to life. It makes no sense.
Again....the whole fast food (which is what we are discussing) is essential to life argument is making me chuckle. Sorry to be an ass, but I feel I am responding to an arrogant tone. I'll just peace out from here.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:38 AM   #114
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Re: smokers tax

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Again....the whole fast food (which is what we are discussing) is essential to life argument is making me chuckle. Sorry to be an ass, but I feel I am responding to an arrogant tone. I'll just peace out from here.

But I corrected my point to say that not all fast food is bad.

I apologize if my tone seems arrogant, that was not my intent.
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