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Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Old 09-20-2007, 09:18 AM   #16
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

Oh good lord! It a nice test to take to gauge yourself about what you know about our government's beginnings. If you didn't do well and are dissappointed by that fact then grab a 12th grade US History book. Spend 3 days re-reading what you've already supposedly learned and had gotten a high grade on in the first place which you must have needed in order to go to a "good school".

Just learn something about anything,folks. It doesn't really matter how, where, why or when.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:44 AM   #17
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

Well, I got a 90 and I'm an idiot.

Seriously. I accidentally had sex with an ottoman in 1988.

No, I'm stupid. Someone wrote "L" and"R" on all my shoes... and I don't know why!

I'm a dolt. My wife asked me to get a chocolate stain out of my son's shirt. I used scissors.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:48 AM   #18
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Nonsense. Financial panics come and are then forgotten. The Federalist Papers will endure forever.

But seriously. The test is designed to reveal one's knowledge of civics. No one claimed it was a test of intelligence. Although, there are many questions that could be answered by applying a liitle common sense. Others, like the one where you had to know that Sumter, Gettysburg, Appomattox was the example in the correct order reveal wether or not you know anything about the Civil War. I think a Harvard graduate should know enough about U.S. history to answer that question. They should know enough about finance to answer the treasury bond question. Etc. Etc. Apparently many of them do not. Ross Douthat has a great book called Privilege that exposes a lot of what goes on up there. Basically everybody that shows up for class gets an A or B. There are many genuinely gifted people, but most of them are kind of unctious over-achievers of the Al Gore variety. That was a revelation to me. I assumed that they were all unusually bright. I guess they are compared to the other schools. Which is sort of like being the best hockey player on Fiji.
Well, you say that a Harvard graduate should know enough about the civil war to answer that question, but why? Why do people need to know that? I'm interested to hear a valid reason other than "I just think you should know this stuff."

I just can't come off the fact that employers don't give a crap whether you can name the civil war battles. They care if you can negotiate contracts, or strike deals, or analyze financial statements, or determine how to advertise to 18-45 year olds, or defend a company in the courtroom from lawsuits.

College is intended to be preparation for your next step, whether that step be to law school, med school, or into the business world. The reason Harvard kids get an average of 69 is because Harvard doesn't waste its time teaching kids about the civil war. They spend their time training them to think critically and solve problems in the workplace. That's why Harvard grads get paid so dang much.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:52 AM   #19
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Yeah, I was able to deduce my way to a score of 70, which would put me on par with the Harvard average. Some questions I flat out knew, others I could just reason through.

But if I wanted to test someone's ability to deduce and logically think through questions, I'd administer an IQ test. This is, first and foremost, a test of factual knowledge, most of which is completely useless in today's world.

It's just irritating to hear people come down on college kids from Ivy League schools, who are clearly extremely bright, for not scoring high on this test. Hell, if I went to Harvard and someone came up to me and said "I got a 95 on that civics quiz, what'd you get?" I'd say, 65. What'd you get on your SATs? Oh, 1050? Well I got a 1520, motherfucker. By the way, how was community college?"

This was not to put down a score of 1050 on the SATs, or community college. This was just to illustrate that it's absolutely ridiculous to equate this quiz with intelligence, let alone relevance in today's world.
So I guess....since you basically got a "D", on the test, and you don't want to be a dumb ass, it's meaningless?
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:51 AM   #20
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Well, I got a 90 and I'm an idiot.

Seriously. I accidentally had sex with an ottoman in 1988.

No, I'm stupid. Someone wrote "L" and"R" on all my shoes... and I don't know why!

I'm a dolt. My wife asked me to get a chocolate stain out of my son's shirt. I used scissors.
What do you mean "accidentally"?
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:21 AM   #21
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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So I guess....since you basically got a "D", on the test, and you don't want to be a dumb ass, it's meaningless?
This is my whole problem with this thing, people equate the score on this test with being either smart or being a "dumb ass" as you put it.

The average score for Harvard students is 69. Are you going to tell them they're dumb asses? I'd be willing to bet their IQ scores rank damn high, which is a much better indicator of intelligence.

My whole point is ANY DIPSHIT can memorize facts. You can read a history textbook for three days and get a 90 on this test, and all you'd need to know is how to read. This test tells you nothing.

In the words of Bill Parcells, let's flip this pancake over. Let's see who comes out on top, you or the Harvard kids, on the SATs, IQ tests, or math exams. I think we'd quickly find out who the "dumbass" really is.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:57 AM   #22
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

Most of those questions are easy but there are few tough ones in there. I would expect most college kids to get at least 40 of those questions right, more than that is just a bonus.

It's definitely not a fluff test and covers wide range of topics (philosophy, economics, religion, and history). I don't think this test can be used to get an accurate reading of someone's intelligence. It's basically a memory test with a few questions you can reason your way out of.

p.s. I scored 48/60 (80%). Damn you Alexis de Tocqueville and Radical Republicans!
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:59 AM   #23
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Most of those questions are easy but there are few tough ones in there. I would expect most collage kids to get at least 40 of those questions right, more than that is just a bonus.

p.s. I scored 48/60 (80%). Damn you Alexis de Tocqueville and Radical Republicans!
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:10 PM   #24
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Are they made out of paper mache?
Perhaps, you never know
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:40 PM   #25
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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What do you mean "accidentally"?
1988 was a seminal year for me. And, as it turns out, the ottoman as well.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:01 PM   #26
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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This is my whole problem with this thing, people equate the score on this test with being either smart or being a "dumb ass" as you put it.

The average score for Harvard students is 69. Are you going to tell them they're dumb asses? I'd be willing to bet their IQ scores rank damn high, which is a much better indicator of intelligence.

My whole point is ANY DIPSHIT can memorize facts. You can read a history textbook for three days and get a 90 on this test, and all you'd need to know is how to read. This test tells you nothing.

In the words of Bill Parcells, let's flip this pancake over. Let's see who comes out on top, you or the Harvard kids, on the SATs, IQ tests, or math exams. I think we'd quickly find out who the "dumbass" really is.
Go find a test that you think is more indicative of intelligence and let's all take it.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:18 PM   #27
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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This is my whole problem with this thing, people equate the score on this test with being either smart or being a "dumb ass" as you put it.

The average score for Harvard students is 69. Are you going to tell them they're dumb asses? I'd be willing to bet their IQ scores rank damn high, which is a much better indicator of intelligence.

My whole point is ANY DIPSHIT can memorize facts. You can read a history textbook for three days and get a 90 on this test, and all you'd need to know is how to read. This test tells you nothing.

In the words of Bill Parcells, let's flip this pancake over. Let's see who comes out on top, you or the Harvard kids, on the SATs, IQ tests, or math exams. I think we'd quickly find out who the "dumbass" really is.
The test is obviously more than a memory set to be recalled. It requires on many of the questions at least a cursory understanding of events, societies, social makeup, Governments, etc.
Does is require Da vinci to understand these facts? No
Are many, if not all scholarly people, at least to some degree students of history? Yes
Why? a window to the past in many cases is the window to the future.
I noticed that you reference in all your posts the lack of importance of history in your workplace. I would consider that a very limited view of the world. Your work place is but a micron of the larger picture.
Speaking of history on a workplace note, I would doubt there is any successful business, that does not actively use it's own history, and history in general to predict and exploit the future.
I personally have the utmost respect for the intellect of anybody who is accepted to Harvard. However, as they will discover, the real education in business (if that is your concern) will come with their first position of consequence.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:28 PM   #28
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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The test is obviously more than a memory set to be recalled. It requires on many of the questions at least a cursory understanding of events, societies, social makeup, Governments, etc.
Does is require Da vinci to understand these facts? No
Are many, if not all scholarly people, at least to some degree students of history? Yes
Why? a window to the past in many cases is the window to the future.
I noticed that you reference in all your posts the lack of importance of history in your workplace. I would consider that a very limited view of the world. Your work place is but a micron of the larger picture.
Speaking of history on a workplace note, I would doubt there is any successful business, that does not actively use it's own history, and history in general to predict and exploit the future.
I personally have the utmost respect for the intellect of anybody who is accepted to Harvard. However, as they will discover, the real education in business (if that is your concern) will come with their first position of consequence.
You clearly didn't read my second post in this thread. So I will repost it:

Quote:
That is not to say that studying American history, or any history, is a waste of time. If you can think through the issues and problems we faced in the 1800s around the time of the Civil War, explain them, and analyze the outcomes, then you've managed to think through real world problems and you likely have the ability to apply that kind of thinking to our present day situations. That kind of person would be great as a political analyst, or great as an elected official. That kind of thinking, analyzing problems from our history, helps us to avoid repeating mistakes we've made in the past.

So studying history can be a very valuable tool.

That said, this "quiz" does nothing to test analytical thinking. It simply tests your knowledge of historical fact. Memorization of fact adds no value, and hence the test is retarded. History teachers should always ask open ended questions to be answered in essay fashion.
In other words, I don't care if you can name 10 civil war battles or not. What matters is if you can analyze the issues surrounding the civil war, and the lessons learned from them.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:10 PM   #29
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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Go find a test that you think is more indicative of intelligence and let's all take it.
This kind of test is a legit, though not completely thorough, test of intelligence.

If we we really wanted to take a real IQ test, those take 2-3 hours. But this one can be done in 15 minutes and at least gives you an idea of where you are.

INTERNATIONAL HIGH IQ SOCIETY | Iq Tests

Take the one labeled CMA.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:54 PM   #30
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Re: Civics Test the College Kids all Failed

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This kind of test is a legit, though not completely thorough, test of intelligence.

If we we really wanted to take a real IQ test, those take 2-3 hours. But this one can be done in 15 minutes and at least gives you an idea of where you are.

INTERNATIONAL HIGH IQ SOCIETY | Iq Tests

Take the one labeled CMA.
144.

As a warning to the kids out there, don't take this test while high.
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