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AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Old 01-01-2008, 12:19 AM   #91
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
Really, I don't see how it can be. It can only hurt the honest people, not the "evil people". Only the honest will follow the rules, so there is no point in doing that since the honest ones are the ones that need protection. There are no stiffer penalties in site right now, and that is what is needed for the "evil people".

(note- evil people is not a reference to "evil doers", it is merely lumping together all people that do armed robberies, or break ins, or car jackings etc.)

I disagree... If I could adopt my own policy I would make it more difficult and pricey to purchase a firearm. I would make it federally mandated to have all firearms registered in all neccessary jurisdictions. I would put into place a prerequisite for criminal history, mental health, qualifying (with each weapon) and training in order to own a firearm, but take away the restrictions on what kind. Banning pistol grips on assault rifles, certain types of bullets, and limiting magazine sizes doesn't really do anything.

Then, I'd put in place a MANDATORY minimum 5 year sentance on ANY gun related charge. Everyone who gets caught with a gun that doesn't check out goes to the can, but those allowed to carry them, can carry them anywhere. Federal buildings, schools, airplanes, etc...
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:31 AM   #92
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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I disagree... If I could adopt my own policy I would make it more difficult and pricey to purchase a firearm. I would make it federally mandated to have all firearms registered in all neccessary jurisdictions. I would put into place a prerequisite for criminal history, mental health, qualifying (with each weapon) and training in order to own a firearm, but take away the restrictions on what kind. Banning pistol grips on assault rifles, certain types of bullets, and limiting magazine sizes doesn't really do anything.

Then, I'd put in place a MANDATORY minimum 5 year sentance on ANY gun related charge. Everyone who gets caught with a gun that doesn't check out goes to the can, but those allowed to carry them, can carry them anywhere. Federal buildings, schools, airplanes, etc...
In theory sure, but like I have already said, all you're doing is hurting the honest. The dishonest already get their guns without government knowledge, and just like drugs, they will continue to get them in underhanded ways. To not see that is doing a huge injustice to the honest people of the world.
Also, assuming the dishonest / evil people were caught (only the dumb), we don't have enough room in the prisons / jails. So your theory would not work at all.

I find it interesting that people think it's OK for the Military or Police to have guns, but not the general population. You need to ask yourself WHY do they have / need guns? PROTECTION. Why give them the right to protect us or even themselves, but not give the right to us?

Speaking of your theory, if for some crazy reason the country does decide to ban guns, I hold firm to Charlton Heston's comment..."from my cold dead fingers." I'll NEVER give up my fire arm and my right to protect my family...NEVER. I am quite sure there are millions out there just like me too. Just like prohibition, gun laws won't work either.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:34 AM   #93
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Then, I'd put in place a MANDATORY minimum 5 year sentance on ANY gun related charge.
So what you're saying is it's ok to drink and drive and get caught 2 or 3 times (or more depending on the state) and gets 1 month in jail, but someone that had a gun in his glove compartment for protection would go to jail for a minimum of 5 years?
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:44 AM   #94
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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So what you're saying is it's ok to drink and drive and get caught 2 or 3 times (or more depending on the state) and gets 1 month in jail, but someone that had a gun in his glove compartment for protection would go to jail for a minimum of 5 years?
what i'm saying is if someone has an illegal gun he's gone...what's an honest person doing with an illegal gun???? that simple. there has to be guidelines...

and do me a favor... find the post where I advocate 1 month sentences for repeat drunk driving offenders. If I were writing the laws, there would be very stiff penalties for that as well....
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:46 AM   #95
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

and jsarno... I'm not saying it would be perfect, but it would be a vast improvement over what we have now, and a vast improvement over all the bans that we're seeing that don't do anything.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:55 AM   #96
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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what i'm saying is if someone has an illegal gun he's gone... that simple. there has to be guidelines...

and do me a favor... find the post where I advocate 1 month sentences for repeat drunk driving offenders. If I were writing the laws, there would be very stiff penalties for that as well....
I'm not saying you wrote that...thus the question mark at the end of the sentence. I just find it odd that gun laws got looser around the early 90's and gun related crimes have dropped ever since...not a coincidence. Yet we have a huge drunk driver issue in this country and no one is talking about it. Instead we are here talking about how we should ignore what this country was founded on and take control out of the hands of the innocent. The evil people don't care about laws...only the honest do. So all you're doing is hurting the honest.
I leave you with this scenario...imagine someone breaks into your house, your wife calls 911...the intruder comes into your room and shoots your wife and your kid cause he's all hopped up on something. If you had a gun you could have stopped him, but since you chose to put your faith in government for protection instead of your own hands, your family is dead, and the intruder fled the scene before the police could get there. What do you think about gun laws now? Cause those gun laws didn't deter the intruder from keeping a gun, only keeps you from having one. For the record I sincerely hope that NO ONE EVER goes through this, but it does happen and can happen. I choose to take matters into my own hands rather than let someone else "save" me.
Hey, no one is saying get a gun...it's your choice. Seriously. But don't tell me I shouldn't have one, and don't tell me that someone else will protect me, and don't tell me that more gun laws will help the common person. That's a load of crap. Put your mind to work on what will stop the criminals, not the innocent.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:58 AM   #97
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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and jsarno... I'm not saying it would be perfect, but it would be a vast improvement over what we have now, and a vast improvement over all the bans that we're seeing that don't do anything.
I am all for harsher penalties, in fact it's past due...but to take control the innocent like that is absurd when it won't deter the evil.
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Old 01-01-2008, 03:05 AM   #98
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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I'm not saying you wrote that...thus the question mark at the end of the sentence. I just find it odd that gun laws got looser around the early 90's and gun related crimes have dropped ever since...not a coincidence. Yet we have a huge drunk driver issue in this country and no one is talking about it. Instead we are here talking about how we should ignore what this country was founded on and take control out of the hands of the innocent. The evil people don't care about laws...only the honest do. So all you're doing is hurting the honest.
I leave you with this scenario...imagine someone breaks into your house, your wife calls 911...the intruder comes into your room and shoots your wife and your kid cause he's all hopped up on something. If you had a gun you could have stopped him, but since you chose to put your faith in government for protection instead of your own hands, your family is dead, and the intruder fled the scene before the police could get there. What do you think about gun laws now? Cause those gun laws didn't deter the intruder from keeping a gun, only keeps you from having one. For the record I sincerely hope that NO ONE EVER goes through this, but it does happen and can happen. I choose to take matters into my own hands rather than let someone else "save" me.
Hey, no one is saying get a gun...it's your choice. Seriously. But don't tell me I shouldn't have one, and don't tell me that someone else will protect me, and don't tell me that more gun laws will help the common person. That's a load of crap. Put your mind to work on what will stop the criminals, not the innocent.
did you even read any of my posts or did you find one thing to disagree with and run with it????
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:03 AM   #99
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

most people that support their second amendment rights are borderline fanatical. not saying you, jsarno. but if the shoe fits....
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #100
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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the reason was to withstand the government turning on the everyday Joe, and basically turning into a communistic society
Which would NEVER happen today...
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:35 AM   #101
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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most people that support their second amendment rights are borderline fanatical. not saying you, jsarno. but if the shoe fits....
That is a gross over generalization.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #102
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I'm not saying you wrote that...thus the question mark at the end of the sentence. I just find it odd that gun laws got looser around the early 90's and gun related crimes have dropped ever since...not a coincidence. Yet we have a huge drunk driver issue in this country and no one is talking about it. Instead we are here talking about how we should ignore what this country was founded on and take control out of the hands of the innocent. The evil people don't care about laws...only the honest do. So all you're doing is hurting the honest.
I leave you with this scenario...imagine someone breaks into your house, your wife calls 911...the intruder comes into your room and shoots your wife and your kid cause he's all hopped up on something. If you had a gun you could have stopped him, but since you chose to put your faith in government for protection instead of your own hands, your family is dead, and the intruder fled the scene before the police could get there. What do you think about gun laws now? Cause those gun laws didn't deter the intruder from keeping a gun, only keeps you from having one. For the record I sincerely hope that NO ONE EVER goes through this, but it does happen and can happen. I choose to take matters into my own hands rather than let someone else "save" me.
Hey, no one is saying get a gun...it's your choice. Seriously. But don't tell me I shouldn't have one, and don't tell me that someone else will protect me, and don't tell me that more gun laws will help the common person. That's a load of crap. Put your mind to work on what will stop the criminals, not the innocent.


All right, I was a little drunk last night and didn't feel like getting into it, but I firmly believe the RIGHT gun laws definitely will help the common person. You cannot deny that we should have laws to monitor the distribution of guns. No 8 year old with a credit card needs a gun. No repeat violent criminal needs a gun. I would take it a step further and say that no one with confirmed mental health issues can have one, and no one who is untrained can have one either. Who is it hurting to have people who are untrained and mentally ill, voilent crimials, etc... not have weapons?

What I don't get is you argue with me and you basically say the same thing. I said earlier the police can't be everywhere all the time... so if you had licensing for owning and carrying firearms, where qualifying, training, and testing were required, you could feel comfortable allowing certain people with a certain level of licensing to carry their guns just about anywhere, including federal buldings, schools, and airplanes. I think it should be the responsibility of people who are able to help deter or prevent violent crime.

Stiffer penalties for drugs haven't wiped out drugs altogether, but it has at least contained the crack epidemic. With such stiffer penalties for just possession, the plea bargainers allow access to the dealers. Right now they don't even really investigate where an illegal gun comes from. They run it through a computer and if it's not registered, they just book it. There are still states who don't reqiure you to register guns, and I would change that as well. Just like you register your car to deter theft.... same principle.

With my system in place, crimes like the VT shootings and 911 at least have a chance at being thwarted, or casualties minimalized. I think a lot of the newer gun laws were pushed through in order to appease the democratic party, and weren't really thought through. Taking away assault weapons from the public is wrong. It is completely against the second amendment. Guns aren't just for hunting and just a short 230 years ago this country was formed by men using guns to overthrow their ruling government. Not saying that's why we should have guns, but we romanticize their efforts and say today is a different world those old rules don't apply.

I agree. Today is a different world. There's as much social unrest in the world today than there's ever been. The United States is very fortunate not to have any of its recent wars carried onto its soil, with the exception of Pearl Harbor. Airline travel and the internet make assaults on our soil easily coordinated and executed. We've seen the domestic side of things as well, with Katrina, Rita, the LA riots, School Shootings, 911, etc... Now is not the time to disarm the public, or limit the quality of defense available to them. Now is the time to make sure the public is prepared to use the weapons made available to them.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:56 PM   #103
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Originally Posted by canthetuna View Post
All right, I was a little drunk last night and didn't feel like getting into it, but I firmly believe the RIGHT gun laws definitely will help the common person. You cannot deny that we should have laws to monitor the distribution of guns. No 8 year old with a credit card needs a gun. No repeat violent criminal needs a gun. I would take it a step further and say that no one with confirmed mental health issues can have one, and no one who is untrained can have one either. Who is it hurting to have people who are untrained and mentally ill, voilent crimials, etc... not have weapons?
I certainly agree with that.

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What I don't get is you argue with me and you basically say the same thing. I said earlier the police can't be everywhere all the time... so if you had licensing for owning and carrying firearms, where qualifying, training, and testing were required, you could feel comfortable allowing certain people with a certain level of licensing to carry their guns just about anywhere, including federal buldings, schools, and airplanes. I think it should be the responsibility of people who are able to help deter or prevent violent crime.

Stiffer penalties for drugs haven't wiped out drugs altogether, but it has at least contained the crack epidemic. With such stiffer penalties for just possession, the plea bargainers allow access to the dealers. Right now they don't even really investigate where an illegal gun comes from. They run it through a computer and if it's not registered, they just book it. There are still states who don't reqiure you to register guns, and I would change that as well. Just like you register your car to deter theft.... same principle.

With my system in place, crimes like the VT shootings and 911 at least have a chance at being thwarted, or casualties minimalized. I think a lot of the newer gun laws were pushed through in order to appease the democratic party, and weren't really thought through. Taking away assault weapons from the public is wrong. It is completely against the second amendment. Guns aren't just for hunting and just a short 230 years ago this country was formed by men using guns to overthrow their ruling government. Not saying that's why we should have guns, but we romanticize their efforts and say today is a different world those old rules don't apply.

I agree. Today is a different world. There's as much social unrest in the world today than there's ever been. The United States is very fortunate not to have any of its recent wars carried onto its soil, with the exception of Pearl Harbor. Airline travel and the internet make assaults on our soil easily coordinated and executed. We've seen the domestic side of things as well, with Katrina, Rita, the LA riots, School Shootings, 911, etc... Now is not the time to disarm the public, or limit the quality of defense available to them. Now is the time to make sure the public is prepared to use the weapons made available to them.
My sincere apologies. I misunderstood you. Every once in a while I lump in posts and if they seem similar I put them together. Not saying it's right, but I'm not here often enough to get familiar with everyone. I thought you were someone else basically. Again, my apologies. Thank you for clarifying.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:02 AM   #104
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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most people that support their second amendment rights are borderline fanatical. not saying you, jsarno. but if the shoe fits....
I didn't take it that way cause I am not fanatical. I am opinionated. If someone said I am wrong for having a gun, I'd laugh at them and keep on doing what I am doing. This is something I never discuss with anyone other than here cause no one knows I own a gun. I know people from the DC area are much more sensitive to this subject than most of the country. Partly due to crime in that area, partly due to a lot of democrats in the area, partly due to tragedies in the area. If we were to discuss this with people that mainly live in the south, this would be a vastly different conversation here.

It's just fun to occasionally discuss these sorts of things.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:03 PM   #105
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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I didn't take it that way cause I am not fanatical. I am opinionated. If someone said I am wrong for having a gun, I'd laugh at them and keep on doing what I am doing. This is something I never discuss with anyone other than here cause no one knows I own a gun. I know people from the DC area are much more sensitive to this subject than most of the country. Partly due to crime in that area, partly due to a lot of democrats in the area, partly due to tragedies in the area. If we were to discuss this with people that mainly live in the south, this would be a vastly different conversation here.

It's just fun to occasionally discuss these sorts of things.
no prob for clarifying... i didn't quite understand what you diagreed with...

and the DC area is a prime example. There are gun related crimes daily in that small city and there is a citywide ban on all handguns.
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