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AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Old 01-02-2008, 01:54 PM   #106
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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No its the anti gun people who make them out to be fanatical. I support the second and believe people should have the right to own guns and I don't even own one.
People make fanaticism sound bad.

Am I "fanatical" about preserving my right to protect myself and my family? Damn straight.

I'm also fanatical about the U.S. not being invaded, I'm fanatical about the Redskins, low cost auto insurance and goo deals on electronics.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:01 PM   #107
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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No its the anti gun people who make them out to be fanatical. I support the second and believe people should have the right to own guns and I don't even own one.
in my case, this isn't true. i have talked to a bunch of people at my work who are avid believers in the second amendment. once i ask a bunch of them how they would react if the united states would enact total gun control. they all said that would never happen. and if it would, they would have to pry them out of their dead hands. and they were serious. i guess that's how things like Waco happen. because most of those guys own HUNDREDS of guns. which, to me, is even more of a reason to have some sort of gun control. one of thee guys owns a fully automatic AK47. what exactly is the purpose of owning a gun like that?
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:05 PM   #108
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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in my case, this isn't true. i have talked to a bunch of people at my work who are avid believers in the second amendment. once i ask a bunch of them how they would react if the united states would enact total gun control. they all said that would never happen. and if it would, they would have to pry them out of their dead hands. and they were serious. i guess that's how things like Waco happen. because most of those guys own HUNDREDS of guns. which, to me, is even more of a reason to have some sort of gun control. one of thee guys owns a fully automatic AK47. what exactly is the purpose of owning a gun like that?
I know several people who own fully automatic rifles, none of which are wack-jobs ready to go off the deep end. They're actually all engineers who are just enthusiastic about the engineering and design aspect of firearms.

What's the purpose of owning a $650,000 Mercedes-Benz SLR? Who knows...it's hardly useful on public streets and it's the definition of excess, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to drop the necessary dough on it.

Hell, I'd get one myself if I had the money.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:05 PM   #109
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

and with being fanatical, most of the time people cant think reasonably, when it comes to the things that they are fanatical about. using the redskins for example. how many times have people said things that are totally off the wall regarding the skins? it happens all the time. your thinking gets obscured. you cant reason properly about the things your are a fanatic about
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #110
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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I know several people who own fully automatic rifles, none of which are wack-jobs ready to go off the deep end. They're actually all engineers who are just enthusiastic about the engineering and design aspect of firearms.

What's the purpose of owning a $650,000 Mercedes-Benz SLR? Who knows...it's hardly useful on public streets and it's the definition of excess, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to drop the necessary dough on it.

Hell, I'd get one myself if I had the money.
im not sure about your analogy? ones a driving machine. the others sole intent is killing. there is a helluva difference
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:35 PM   #111
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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If guns are properly stored and kept their sould never be an issue of a kid finding one and shooting themself or a friend. The guy messing around with a loaded gun in his house should not have owned a gun or learned gun safty first.
I agree, but the fact is that he does own a gun and he hasn't learned gun safety first.

The problem with the "regulation by education" approach is that it looks at the top 10% of gun owners (in terms of education and responsibility) as the prototypical gun owner. You can't do that - laws and regulations have to address the middle of the bell curve.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:48 PM   #112
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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im not sure about your analogy? ones a driving machine. the others sole intent is killing. there is a helluva difference
Killing persons with evil intent is a necessary part of life. Always has been, always will be.

Somewhere, at some point, it may come down to you or them. Things are a lot more civilized than they were hundreds or thousands of years ago but that doesn't change the fact that the wicked prey on the weak and innocent.

Yep, a firearm's sole purpose, intent and design is to be an effective and efficient killing machine as possible. What's wrong with that? I hope I never have to use it as such, and in past experiences I have gone well out of my way to preserve life and avoid confrontation, but that doesn't change the possibility of it being required in the future.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:29 PM   #113
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Killing persons with evil intent is a necessary part of life. Always has been, always will be.

Somewhere, at some point, it may come down to you or them. Things are a lot more civilized than they were hundreds or thousands of years ago but that doesn't change the fact that the wicked prey on the weak and innocent.

Yep, a firearm's sole purpose, intent and design is to be an effective and efficient killing machine as possible. What's wrong with that? I hope I never have to use it as such, and in past experiences I have gone well out of my way to preserve life and avoid confrontation, but that doesn't change the possibility of it being required in the future.
so you are OK with what happened to Sean Taylor? guns today are so much more accessible our country needs some sort of regulation on them
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:12 PM   #114
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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so you are OK with what happened to Sean Taylor? guns today are so much more accessible our country needs some sort of regulation on them
Can you point me to where I said what happened to Sean Taylor was okay? I never stated that or anything remotely close to that as far as I am aware, but if you have a link, by all means let me know.

I specifically said I have zero problem with guns being used to kill the evil to protect the innocent, not that I have no problem with ANYone being killed with a gun. Guns are an effective mechanism of taking a life, and I am all for taking the lives of those who would do me or my loved ones harm.

Guns are less accessible today than at any point in history since their inception, yet we have more crime than ever. What might that tell us?

Guns are already supposedly "inaccessible" to criminals and people with criminal records. We need to be a lot harsher about the dealing with the people who are violating the laws already in place, not just start making new ones.

When I was a cop, we'd do our damnedest to get Federal gun charges on the punks that we'd find with guns. Federal charges were the only ones that were any kind of real punishment that they'd be afraid of, state and local charges were a complete joke as the criminals knew damn well that the state charges would be plead down, dropped, they'd get probation, or at the very worst serve a sentence that would have them out in no time on parole. Not so with Federal charges.

About 5-8 years ago the department I worked for spent about 3 years working on a local gang and getting Federal charges on almost all of the leaders. There's now about 15-20 hardened criminals serving Federal sentences of upwards of 30 years with no hope for parole. THAT is how you handle criminals with guns, not these laughing stock state charges.

I'd have to dig up the link, but somewhere around 80% of firearms used in crimes are purchased on the black market or borrowed/taken/stolen from a friend or family member.

A very small minority of guns used in crimes are legally purchased.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #115
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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More people die in the US from car crashes and guns sole intent is not killing.
I'd take issue with you there, even though I think we're coming from the same side of this debate.

The primary purpose of a firearm is to take a life (animal or human). That's what it was made to do, that's why it exists.

Yes, there are "target shooting" firearms, but let's be realistic and admit that the sole reason guns exist is not for the fun of plinking a few soda cans or target shooting. It's to take life.

I see no reason to equivocate or argue about that, and I have no problem with it. It's not something that needs to be defended, it's simple fact.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:18 PM   #116
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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We do have regulations on fire arms its just people like the one who shot ST don't buy gun legally. We also have laws about breaking and entering and did that stop them?
Laws rarely stop anyone, they just provide consequences when someone breaks said law and gets caught. It's a means of punishment for the most part, not determent or prevention

The real point is that an out and out ban on firearms will only take them out of the hands of law abiding citizens - the criminals will continue to get them.

Doesn't mean we can't have appropriate, sensible laws to punish those who use firearms with malicious intent.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:53 PM   #117
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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no prob for clarifying... i didn't quite understand what you diagreed with...

and the DC area is a prime example. There are gun related crimes daily in that small city and there is a citywide ban on all handguns.
Well, maybe you can answer why there is a ban on radar / lasar detectors? I have owned one for years...in fact I have the Beltronics rx65 and it's AMAZINGLY GOOD! But they have all said that the DC area bans those detectors, unsure why.
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:19 AM   #118
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Well, maybe you can answer why there is a ban on radar / lasar detectors? I have owned one for years...in fact I have the Beltronics rx65 and it's AMAZINGLY GOOD! But they have all said that the DC area bans those detectors, unsure why.
Well I can't answer for the radar ban but I know that the gun ban isn't doing any good (hell I didn't even know there was a gun ban) cause I have friends that have high-powered automatic weapons like Tech-9s, desert eagles and I know for sure they don't have a license for them. They aren't thugs or anything thank God, just gun nuts.

Although one of my friends who does own guns/rifles/automatics said that in her neighborhood which isn't too far from mine, that people in her neighborhood who own automatic weapons on the 4th of July and new years, go outside with their automatic weapons and shoot them in the air. Like idiots. :smashfrea

This is just an example of how its incredibly easy to pick up a gun from anyone for anyone. Thats why I think there needs to be tighter laws. So idiots can't get their hands on them.
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:49 AM   #119
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Well, maybe you can answer why there is a ban on radar / lasar detectors? I have owned one for years...in fact I have the Beltronics rx65 and it's AMAZINGLY GOOD! But they have all said that the DC area bans those detectors, unsure why.

I'd speculate increased ticket revenue.... but thats just a guess
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:34 PM   #120
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Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?

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Sorry but I have a hard time believing that people just go out and shoot off their automatic weapons in DC. Now if you lived in the middle of no where then maybe. These guns are very loud and the cops would be crawing all over the place after one went off. By the way bullets falling from the sky will not kill a person. Saw that on myth busters. I was very surprised at how slow they fell back to earth.
Absolutely incorrect.

While I can't speak for DC specifically, I was an officer in a police department with a metro population of about 650,000.

On New Years Eve we'd find ourselves a nice place to park with a roof (under a bridge or something) and stay there. Near the projects there was non-stop weapons fire for about an hour, with a number of automatics in the mix. We would've needed the National Guard to go in an investigate every last shots fired call, not to mention all the bogus ones for "legit fireworks."

The city sounded like Fallujah on New Years, and I'll be damned if me or any other poorly equipped street cop is going to run around on foot trying to find some dude with a full auto AK47.
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