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Old 08-14-2004, 01:19 PM   #16
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Afghanistan supported an attack on the U.S. and deserved to be flipped upside down. we found all the international help for that.

Iraq, jet fuel or no, has been PROVEN to not be a threat to the U.S. either with WMD, delivery systems or state sponsored terrorism. if you consider invading countries without proven reason, severing global alliances, and painting a bigger target on the US, at enormous cost of dollars and lives, DOING something then that something was INCOMPETENT and grossly irresponsible.

its funny how people will claim iraqi 'civil rights' was part of this war's agenda (as IF), but not recognize the arrogant personal and economic agenda this war was really fought for. peoples heads are buried in the sand along with all those deadly, nation threatening WMD..
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Old 08-14-2004, 02:06 PM   #17
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Amen, Illdefined.

We also hesitated before rushing into Afghanistan. Which certainly didn't help.

Let's look at the time from of the amount of deaths that Saddam created and the amount the US created. Per year we kill more citizens than Saddam. But it's OK because we're forcing our way of life on another country, right?

You think we've seen a backlash now? Wait till US forces deystroy the holiest of Mosques. It's like the Vatican being torn down by terrorists if you put it into perspective for us. Speaking of the Vatican...

I'm all for invading Vatacin city next (it is a country) because they have a religious rule setup and in place. God knows what extremes pope john paul may go through to get his way!
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:09 AM   #18
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> severing global alliances
what global alliances? you realize we supply a vast majority of the UN security forces right? and that france and russia didn't want us to go in because (in part) they were too busy making money trading military consulting and equipment for oil and cash?

Quote:
they say if (in Jon Stewart's words) the coallision forces made up of the US and a crazy Australian with a bowie knife
you realize that jon stewart is a comedian making a joke on a fake news show right?
and do you know that the democrats were all for the war too?

seriously, this crap is boring...
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:11 AM   #19
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and believe it or not, saddam has killed much more civillians in a single year than US forces have, maybe not on average, but averaging 1 year of war versus a longer period isn't completely fair.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ -- That includes things such as suidice bombers, because they say if (in Jon Stewart's words) the coallision forces made up of the US and a crazy Australian with a bowie knife, weren't there the bombers also wouldn't be there, which I can agree with. These numbers are alarming, and guess what. It's a hell of a lot more civilians than we lost, and we wonder why they want us to go home!
with the constant religious turmoil in iraq, it's hard to believe there wouldn't be any suicide bombings occuring occasionaly in iraq. there might not be as many suicide bombings, but to say there wouldn't be any at all if we weren't there is pretty much just wishful thinking. Plus there'd still be a multitude of iraqi supported suicide bombings in other countries if saddam hadn't been taken out of power. so blaming bush and the american people for what the fanatic suicide bombers r doing is kinda just political bs as is the misleading quote about the average iraqi citizens being killed. How in anyone's mind can one year of war(whether u were for it or against it), which unfortunately has innocent casualties, equal over a decade of a ruler and his sons torturing and killing thousands of his own people?

but yeah like That Guy said, all this arguing over the same things constantly is getting old quick.
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Old 08-15-2004, 10:03 AM   #21
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Once again, That Guy is right.

Those that want to discuss this stuff ad nauseum go check out Bozzy's site
http://www.unrulypolitics.com
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Old 08-15-2004, 11:08 AM   #22
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alliances? try NATO, UN. yes i know U.S. supplies the majority of the sec. force, but if that makes them only listen to our president then it completely turns the UN into a front and defeats the purpose of a global forum. everyone's for "global democracy" as long as its dictated by the current US administration.

Dems grudingly supported the war after they were misled by this administration too. once it was revealed Iraq wasn't even a remote threat they had seen what Bush had done and turned against it.

and please stop right now. the last thing this war was about is iraqi lives. there are many other countries with much worse civil right situations, but Bush wouldnt even know how to spell them.

i dont know how people will blindly listen to this administration without QUESTIONING, even after its been PROVEN WRONG about the biggest issue of their entire administration. and then to push to relect four more years of this global incompetence and irresponsibility. how can that not even be beyond party lines?
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Old 08-15-2004, 11:22 AM   #23
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That guy, I'm well aware Jon Stewart is a comedian (and hilarious in person) with a fake news show. It was put in to try to lighten the mood. A frail attempt at some comic relief.

Skinsfan, I understand that there would be quite a few suicide bombings anyways, but I doubt even close to the numbers we currently have. That's why I stated that I think the numbers are slightly inflated. However, if you go there it shows a list and how many people were maimed in each and every attack. Either way, it's a lot more than we lost in the WTC bombings. Yet no one seems to understand why they want us to leave them be.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:34 PM   #24
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the problem with pulling out now, its it'll in all likelyhood create an even worse power-vacuum, and create even greater anti-american sentiment... there's not really a clear win-win situation right now.

Quote:
i dont know how people will blindly listen to this administration without QUESTIONING
maybe you should listen then If you think everyone nods and agrees with everything bush has done, you're wrong... the one thing i've mentioned repeatly though is that kerry's supported the same things bush has as far as foreign policy; promoting him as the answer to all of our problems, or thinking he'll be able to come in and magically fix everything (when it looks like at least the house will continue to have republican controll) isn't the ultimate solution...

if you don't want bush, VOTE FOR SOMEONE else, but don't think that insulting people is EVER going to entice people to take your point of view seriously... we've had this same running arguement for months and nothings changed, no ones flipped, but there's been a bunch of name calling. I have no problem what anyone thinks, I'd just like to ask that its based on sound reasoning instead of reactionary furor...
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:49 PM   #25
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Problem with voting is a democratic vote is the same as a vote for Al Sharpton in Virginia.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
Problem with voting is a democratic vote is the same as a vote for Al Sharpton in Virginia.
what???
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:19 PM   #27
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he's saying it'd be a waste, so why bother... but if everyone thought that way... clinton only got 25% of america to vote for him and won, that's sad. If nothing else, voting gives you a right to complain, and its better than doing nothing at all.

You could also trying interning and eventually going into politics, but public office really isn't for everyone...
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:11 PM   #28
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I vote anyways, but a vote in Virginia is a waste. A lot of people I know vote for Nader so he can get funding from the gov't to campain.
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:47 AM   #29
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the way these threads start hardly encourage much sound reasoning
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Old 08-17-2004, 11:35 AM   #30
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About the swiftvets.com and all of those men saying kerry lied and the guy who treated him for his first purple heart....... well, not one of those guys ACTUALLY SERVED with Kerry in Vietnam. The guy who said he treated Kerry for the purple heart wound, his signature was not to be found on the paperwork and he was not even there. It's just right wing propaganda. Do your research kids...
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