Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father

JoeRedskin · 03-27-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

I am happy for the daughter, she did nothing to deservet the crap handed to her.

I do, however, have an overwhelming concern about how society will digust this...especially the lawyers that will use this to allow thier own clients the same exception.
Sometimes the masses don't understand the consequences of exceptions.

The "exception" in this case is to the uncodified (i.e. - neither enacted as statute or regulation) informal policy of either this particular warden or the BOP. In administrative regulation such a policy is extremely discretionary, subject to challenge on just about any grounds, disfavored by the courts and granted little, if any, binding effect.

Applying the relevant written law in this case, a common sense approach could consider this an "extraordinary situation" under the terms of the applicable regulation. Thus, rather than an exception, the granting of this particular furlough could be seen as comporting with both the letter and the spirit of the codified law.

jsarno · 03-27-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The "exception" in this case is to the uncodified (i.e. - neither enacted as statute or regulation) informal policy of either this particular warden or the BOP. In administrative regulation such a policy is extremely discretionary, subject to challenge on just about any grounds, disfavored by the courts and granted little, if any, binding effect.

Applying the relevant written law in this case, a common sense approach could consider this an "extraordinary situation" under the terms of the applicable regulation. Thus, rather than an exception, the granting of this particular furlough could be seen as comporting with both the letter and the spirit of the codified law.

I see two huge red flags in your post.
1- common sense
2- extraordinary situation
Both require judgement of people that we do not know if they are competant.
We all know this is a society of pointing to someone that preceded us in any venture. This case WILL come up again for someone's client to use as a reason to allow them to see a dying loved one...the question will then be, do we have the proper people in place to make a "common sense" decision regarding THIER "extraordinary situation"?

JoeRedskin · 03-28-2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

We all know this is a society of pointing to someone that preceded us in any venture. This case WILL come up again for someone's client to use as a reason to allow them to see a dying loved one...the question will then be, do we have the proper people in place to make a "common sense" decision regarding THIER "extraordinary situation"?

Legal precedent has varying applicablility in various situations. In this case, any precedent would be to the non-binding informal policy of the BOP that is EXTREMELY discretionary in the first place. The fact that attorneys may reference this case does not mean they will be successful. In fact, based on my 16 years of experience as a regulatory enforcement attorney, such attempts will be unsuccessful unless the exact same situation arises again. This case is simply not the get-out-of-jail-free card you are trying to make it out to be.

Further, and more importantly, the mere fact that someone may try to use the gov'ts actions against it in the future is simply no reason for the gov't not to do the right thing now. Governance by fear leads to more bad results than this decision ever would.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-28-2008, 11:59 AM

Well, the father got to see the girl just before she died. Just a sad, sad story.

Mattyk · 03-28-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Legal precedent has varying applicablility in various situations. In this case, any precedent would be to the non-binding informal policy of the BOP that is EXTREMELY discretionary in the first place. The fact that attorneys may reference this case does not mean they will be successful. In fact, based on my 16 years of experience as a regulatory enforcement attorney, such attempts will be unsuccessful unless the exact same situation arises again. This case is simply not the get-out-of-jail-free card you are trying to make it out to be.

Further, and more importantly, the mere fact that someone may try to use the gov'ts actions against it in the future is simply no reason for the gov't not to do the right thing now. Governance by fear leads to more bad results than this decision ever would.

great point

jbcjr14 · 03-28-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Well, the father got to see the girl just before she died. Just a sad, sad story.

Happy yet a sad ending. RIP.

EternalEnigma21 · 03-31-2008, 10:03 PM

I'm glad she got to see her daddy. Its not her fault he's a **** up. He has to live with missing out on her life when he had the chance, and that's unimaginable to me. Having 2 little girls of my own, not a day goes by that I don't try to base every decision I have on the fact that it will affect their lives as well, and mine with them. My heart goes out to him and anyone else who's had to endure anything like that. Unimaginable.

Campbell17 · 03-31-2008, 10:20 PM

We know all isn't fair until a celeb is sentenced to death.

03-28-2008, 11:59 AM	#64
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father Well, the father got to see the girl just before she died. Just a sad, sad story.

03-31-2008, 10:03 PM	#67
EternalEnigma21 Assistant Regional Mod Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Warrenton VA Age: 33 Posts: 2,953	Re: Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father I'm glad she got to see her daddy. Its not her fault he's a **** up. He has to live with missing out on her life when he had the chance, and that's unimaginable to me. Having 2 little girls of my own, not a day goes by that I don't try to base every decision I have on the fact that it will affect their lives as well, and mine with them. My heart goes out to him and anyone else who's had to endure anything like that. Unimaginable. __________________ Need electrical work in the Northern VA, or Shenandoah Valley? Click here ...and why do we still have a Tom Tupa avatar???

03-31-2008, 10:20 PM	#68
Campbell17 Impact Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Haddonfield, NJ Age: 19 Posts: 642	Re: Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father We know all isn't fair until a celeb is sentenced to death. __________________ This time instead of some lousy joke, humerous comment, racial slur, or a famous quote, I will write small, and be the bigger person.

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Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father

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