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McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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Old 04-04-2008, 11:27 AM   #16
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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This is essentially why I do those periodic "Understanding the Issues" threads so we can actually discuss the candidates' stances on different issues. I should not list the candidates, but it's tough to link to their official pages without doing so.

(Another one will be coming early next week)
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:21 PM   #17
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

This is kind of interesting:

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Old 04-04-2008, 04:06 PM   #18
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

Wow, you went to a leberal site and found something about McCain.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:26 PM   #19
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

This article interests me as being, as far as I'm concerned, proof positive of the total dishonesty of McCain's persona. So for people interested in finding out what lies behind the mask, I think this article is very informative. It's devastating.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:48 AM   #20
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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This article interests me as being, as far as I'm concerned, proof positive of the total dishonesty of McCain's persona. So for people interested in finding out what lies behind the mask, I think this article is very informative. It's devastating.
Hardly. The technique of pretending you were a supporter of a politician only to be SHOCKED when you found out the truth is pretty worn out. The writer claims to have been enamoured of McCain as a straight talking maverick (a narrative the media was pushing in 2000) but then became disallusioned in part over the Keating 5 scandal (happened in the 80s). BTW, the lawyers investigating the Keating thing all said that McCain was basically innocent and should have been exonerated but the other four guys were all Democrats and the Dem leadership who were in charge at that time wanted to have at least one Repulican in the mix so the "scandal" would look bipartisan.

When you watch C-Span there is always that caller who says something to the effect of "I've been a Republican my whole life, but this year I'm voting for the Democrat". After the 50th time you hear it, it sort of loses it's edge. It seems a little -PHONY.
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:02 AM   #21
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

Your statement about the author is false. He didn't become disillusioned about McCain because of the Keating scandal which nearly destroyed McCain's career in the 1980's. He became disillusioned because he found that McCain was talking out of two sides of his mouth, saying one thing but doing the other.

Cases in point from the article:

As The Washington Post reports, McCain is now “assiduously courting both lobbyists and their wealthy clients, offering them private audiences as part of his fundraising.” He has more lobbyists as fundraisers than any other White House contender, and he allows lobbyists to simultaneously work in his campaign and represent business clients.


While McCain prepared his presidential run in 2005, a bill came up to permit drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). McCain—the “maverick” who voted to prevent ANWR drilling in 2003—sided with the oil industry and reversed his vote. He has since signed on more than a dozen staffers and fundraisers who have represented energy interests, while his presidential campaign has been rewarded with $393,000 from the oil and gas industry.

Likewise, Democrats in 2006 authored legislation to implement a version of Arizona’s clean elections system at the federal level. McCain, who previously told PBS the system could be a national model, “dismissed the proposal with a flat ‘no,’ ” according to The Hill newspaper. As the nonpartisan Public Campaign Action Fund reports, McCain is the only current presidential candidate refusing to support public financing of elections.

Now, rushing to build a war chest, McCain is doing everything short of putting a For Sale sign on his forehead. During a nationwide fundraising tour, he was showered with big donations after defending the lobbyist-written trade policies that have driven down wages. He is sure to raise even more cash as he shows his Keating Five roots when shilling for the financial industry. Last week, approaching the 21st anniversary of that scandal, McCain followed the advice of banking-executive-turned-campaign-adviser Phil Gramm and demanded that Congress oppose new Wall Street regulations in the wake of the credit crisis.





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Hardly. The technique of pretending you were a supporter of a politician only to be SHOCKED when you found out the truth is pretty worn out. The writer claims to have been enamoured of McCain as a straight talking maverick (a narrative the media was pushing in 2000) but then became disallusioned in part over the Keating 5 scandal (happened in the 80s). BTW, the lawyers investigating the Keating thing all said that McCain was basically innocent and should have been exonerated but the other four guys were all Democrats and the Dem leadership who were in charge at that time wanted to have at least one Repulican in the mix so the "scandal" would look bipartisan.

When you watch C-Span there is always that caller who says something to the effect of "I've been a Republican my whole life, but this year I'm voting for the Democrat". After the 50th time you hear it, it sort of loses it's edge. It seems a little -PHONY.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:43 AM   #22
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

Doesn't matter whether or not it's true, that's not the point. The point is all 3 candidates have their fair share of hidden agendas to push. They're all on a level playing field in that regard. Smear campaigns like this are pointless, nobody wants to hear them, and nobody cares (evidenced by the number of posts in this thread).

People are going to vote for who they think is the best candidate, knowing that their choices consist of people who will push their own agenda.
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Old 04-05-2008, 10:21 AM   #23
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

i agree schneed. I'm a republican who hasn't ever voted that way...lol. In contrast of the last couple of elections, Im thrilled with the candidates in both parties this year (assuming obama gets the official candidacy). I haven't felt that way (quite the opposite, actually) since I've been voting the last 10 years!
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:33 PM   #24
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

That was a boring damn article, but the worst thing is the title was stolen from one of the best non-fiction books of the last 20 or so years. The real "Confessions" by Perkins is amazing.

Here's my question for everyone on this thread: why is it that people either really dislike McCain or really like him? Some of my conservative friends/family hate his guts. Some think he's awesome (usually military folks). A few progressives I know think he's the best Republican in a long time but most think he's ignorant about the economy and most domestic issues.

I'm asking because I've always thought the guy to be likable but not legendary, and at the end o the day i think he'd be an average pres. Any takers?
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:54 PM   #25
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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That was a boring damn article, but the worst thing is the title was stolen from one of the best non-fiction books of the last 20 or so years. The real "Confessions" by Perkins is amazing.

Here's my question for everyone on this thread: why is it that people either really dislike McCain or really like him? Some of my conservative friends/family hate his guts. Some think he's awesome (usually military folks). A few progressives I know think he's the best Republican in a long time but most think he's ignorant about the economy and most domestic issues.

I'm asking because I've always thought the guy to be likable but not legendary, and at the end o the day i think he'd be an average pres. Any takers?

Well I think generally speaking people either really like or hate most presidential candidates. I don't think it's specific to John McCain. People either love or hate Hillary Clinton. They either love Barack Obama or, at the very least, have some serious reservations about his level experience, religious beliefs and whether or not the media is a little too soft on him. Obama's ties to Reverend Wright didn't do much to help those reservations either. Then there's the electabilty argument with Obama. Can he carry this state or do well within this or that demographic? So I think that line of thinking, even within the respective parties, ring true accross the board. Seldom will you find the majority of folks say that a candidate is simply "okay" and leave it there. We Americans tend to take extreme views on our politics and our public officials, but that's another discussion.

I think McCain's distaste among conservatives has to do with a few things. First of all, many of those from the Ronald Reagan years, who is considered the standard bearer of modern day Republican politics (Reaganomics) believe that John McCain is not lock-step with the party on some key issues. Republicans use "The Reagan Years" (name of a local band, by the way) as a template, so to speak, on how to faithfully execute their office and keep the party together at the same time. Not to the letter neccessarily, but at least to give some semblence of that era and invoke a sense of party.

McCain on the other hand, while I'm absolutely certain he has high regard for Ronald Reagan, raises some serious doubts whether he will fragment the party more than help it. Being that he appeals to Independent voters as well, it's hard to imagine how much, if any, of the party's core beliefs will be exchanged for those votes. More recently, I think his ties to George W. Bush, an unpopular President, and his position on the war in Iraq have rubbed many Republicans the wrong way, especially since during McCain's first run for office he opposed Bush on some issues. Also his stance on immigration has stirred some controversy among the GOP faithful. That's kind of it in a nutshell. And there's all the other riduculous shit people can think of: He's too short, too this, not enough that. His wife looks like Barbie, blah, blah, blah.
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:35 PM   #26
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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Like bowling a 37?

I keed, I keed.
I think I'd be more concerned if he was GOOD at bowling. Let's be honest...bowling is sort of "white trash heaven".
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Old 04-05-2008, 05:11 PM   #27
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

Oakland Red,

Surely you aren't shocked that a presidential candidate with a long track record in the Senate can be picked apart? You can find inconsistencies in anyone's past statements (e.g., I voted for it before I voted against it). I am going to vote for Obama, but as far as politicians go, McCain is pretty damned principled and honest. My godmother is about as liberal as they come, a hardcore feminist, worked as Clinton's Secretary of Indian Affairs, and worked with McCain and other Senators but even she concedes that McCain is very principled and one of the few decent politicians in D.C.

It's really sad that we've entered a new "us versus them" era in politics. It's sad that Dems try to villify every Republican and Republicans similarly try to demonize Dems. I wish we could get to the point where we see "our" candidate and "their" candidate for all of their flaws and attributes.

On an unrelated note, I don't think it's a good idea for liberals to get their "news" from left-leaning papers or righties to get their "news" from the likes of Rush Limbaugh. Listening to people who think just like you and who have a specific agenda in thier reporting will only rot your brain.
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Old 04-06-2008, 02:12 AM   #28
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

I guess that you weigh what is discussed in the article differently than I do, Sheriff. To you, it is par for the course for a politician. For me, it belies the very image of being a "principled politician" that many have had of him.

I think it is very important to know exactly what we are getting when we vote for a president. When Bush was running for example, he made many lies about himself, including how he was "not interested in nation building."

I just got this in my email box tonight about McCain:

10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1


2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2


3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4


5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5


6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7


8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8


9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9


10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10



John McCain is not who the Washington press corps make him out to be.

-- From MoveOn.org



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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Oakland Red,

Surely you aren't shocked that a presidential candidate with a long track record in the Senate can be picked apart? You can find inconsistencies in anyone's past statements (e.g., I voted for it before I voted against it). I am going to vote for Obama, but as far as politicians go, McCain is pretty damned principled and honest. My godmother is about as liberal as they come, a hardcore feminist, worked as Clinton's Secretary of Indian Affairs, and worked with McCain and other Senators but even she concedes that McCain is very principled and one of the few decent politicians in D.C.

It's really sad that we've entered a new "us versus them" era in politics. It's sad that Dems try to villify every Republican and Republicans similarly try to demonize Dems. I wish we could get to the point where we see "our" candidate and "their" candidate for all of their flaws and attributes.

On an unrelated note, I don't think it's a good idea for liberals to get their "news" from left-leaning papers or righties to get their "news" from the likes of Rush Limbaugh. Listening to people who think just like you and who have a specific agenda in thier reporting will only rot your brain.
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Old 04-06-2008, 08:32 AM   #29
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

Oakland Red, based on my non-moderator interpretation of the forum guidelines, you're starting to break them. It's clear that your intentions here are to spam the board with anti-McCain rhetoric.

It'd be one thing if you were going to (or even capable) of making your own points about McCain, but you continue to simply post second-hand information.

I'd prefer that you either got to actually discussing things yourself, or that the mods lock this lame thread down.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:29 AM   #30
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Re: McCain: pathetic, phony hypocrite

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I guess that you weigh what is discussed in the article differently than I do, Sheriff. To you, it is par for the course for a politician. For me, it belies the very image of being a "principled politician" that many have had of him.
Name me one principled politician and I'll knock him/her down as you have done with McCain. My guess is you only see the "double talk" when it comes to the GOP and do your best to explain away the Dems' inconsistencies. That you are surprised that McCain, with his multi-decade long years of service, and his record can be picked apart is kind of silly. By the way, you never clarified if you are Shane or his twin brother.
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