BitterGate

saden1 · 04-13-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheisig

Painting brush? :confused:

You've basically said what Obama said...you think people in the south care about guns, people in the ghetto care about paying their bills and the wealthy care about economy and environment. That's a broad brush stroke.

Skinsfan1967 · 04-13-2008, 04:09 PM

No candidate should get a free ride on stereotyping.

FRPLG · 04-13-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I have no problem with you being me but you're definitely in that category. Did Obama lend you his painting brush?

Honestly though how is it that gay marriage and abortion become at the forefront of our political debate? Guns control is a touchy subject but does limiting gun purchases per a month need to be a first class platform issue?

Because people actually do care about these things. Maybe you don't but a significant portion of our society does.

dmek25 · 04-13-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Gotta love that quote, can I put that as my sig? It just goes to show that too many people consider the war an issue that they don't really face, simply because it doesn't happen in their own back yard.

The war is the #1 issue we all face. Plain and simple.

McCain understands the issues, and to some extent Hillary and Obama do too, but he's the only one of the three who has his priorities in the right order and has solutions that won't hurt us in the long run.

we can respectfully agree to disagree. getting out of Iraq, and taking care of Americans here at home, should be every candidates main focus. and for me, john McCain is a warmonger, that scares the shit out of me. you know the old saying, once a fighter, always a fighter. he would love nothing more then to make his mark by using whatever force necessary around the world. after 5+ years in Iraq( that's not working) its time to give politics a chance

firstdown · 04-14-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

we can respectfully agree to disagree. getting out of Iraq, and taking care of Americans here at home, should be every candidates main focus. and for me, john McCain is a warmonger, that scares the shit out of me. you know the old saying, once a fighter, always a fighter. he would love nothing more then to make his mark by using whatever force necessary around the world. after 5+ years in Iraq( that's not working) its time to give politics a chance

Ok, I know McCain thinks we need to wrap up Iraq and not just leave but what else has he said that makes you think he is a war monger. You can also say a person who has fought in battle knows why to avoid a battle and I think he knows that better than 99% of the American people.

dmek25 · 04-14-2008, 06:33 PM

haven't you heard any of the " mistakes" of McCain speaking on behalf of Iran?

SmootSmack · 04-14-2008, 07:00 PM

I think Obama said last week that McCain is not a warmonger. I think McCain has a much better understanding of the dangers and impact of war than the other candidates, and while it as at times disconcerting to think of more battles overseas, it's also a bit scary to think of what might happen if we just pack our bags and go home.

dmek25 · 04-14-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think Obama said last week that McCain is not a warmonger. I think McCain has a much better understanding of the dangers and impact of war than the other candidates, and while it as at times disconcerting to think of more battles overseas, it's also a bit scary to think of what might happen if we just pack our bags and go home.

ok, ill bite. what might happen?

SmootSmack · 04-14-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

ok, ill bite. what might happen?

Well it's a whole other discussion in and of itself, but I don't believe in an insolationist policy. Or significantly worse, trusting the UN to handle matters. I definitely agreed with the decision to go to Iraq, but the execution and gameplan was poor.

I'm not convinced yet that Obama or Clinton have the right plan when it comes to foreign policy. Is war the answer? Of course not, but...speak softly and carry a big stick

KLHJ2 · 04-14-2008, 09:46 PM

When it comes to providing the troops to support UN operations, we are the UN. I disagreed with going, but I did not disagree with staying there as long as we have. Now we need to shift focus and get out of there. It's time to take the training wheels off of the Iraqi government. If we start the redeployment process and the downsizing of troops now it could still take a couple if not a few more years to completely pull out of there. The sad thing is that I do not see us ever pulling out completely. Iraq is nothing more than a strategic military foothold to the middle east. It doesn't matter who we elect in my opinion, the sad truth that I just mentioned will be the truth for any candidate. I suggest picking your candidate based on the rest of their policies and not Iraq.

saden1 · 04-14-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think Obama said last week that McCain is not a warmonger. I think McCain has a much better understanding of the dangers and impact of war than the other candidates, and while it as at times disconcerting to think of more battles overseas, it's also a bit scary to think of what might happen if we just pack our bags and go home.

So we try to prevent the future? Action could lead to just as much danger as inaction. Or as they say "blowback" in CIA speak.

SmootSmack · 04-14-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

So we try to prevent the future? Action could lead to just as much danger as inaction. Or as they say "blowback" in CIA speak.

Well "blowback" is more about covert action isn't it. I'm not saying go blow up everything. I just don't think "Well I never voted for the war in the first place" is the right answer now

saden1 · 04-14-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well "blowback" is more about covert action isn't it. I'm not saying go blow up everything. I just don't think "Well I never voted for the war in the first place" is the right answer now

Sigh, Blowback is not limited to covert action. It's any action that has negative consequence on Americans and if that's not enough then I hope Abu-Ghraib, Guantanamo, and Secret Prisons quench your thirst.

SmootSmack · 04-14-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Sigh, Blowback is not limited to covert action. It's any action that has negative consequence on Americans and if that's not enough then I hope Abu-Ghraib, Guantanamo, and Secret Prisons quench your thirst.

Well excuse me then, I thought it referred specifically to covert action. Not sure what the "sigh" was for there

What's the term for inaction that has negative consequences? That's more of a rhetorical question. I don't honestly care what the answer is. This thread had me pretty bitter from the start.

djnemo65 · 04-14-2008, 11:21 PM

This week was the bloodiest in Iraq this year, the majority of Iraqis feel that the American presence is worsening the security situation, and Colin Powell became the latest person to point out that our troop levels are unsustainable. So what's the plan? What does McCain understand that I don't? What is the endgame and what is McCain going to do to accomplish it? It's easy to say packing up and going home is bad but unless things change (and they haven't in five years, come on, not really) where is the honor in remaining?

And Obama's comments were stupid. But at least he knows the difference between Shiite and Sunni.

04-13-2008, 04:09 PM	#17
Skinsfan1967 Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Frederick, Maryland Age: 46 Posts: 254	Re: BitterGate No candidate should get a free ride on stereotyping. __________________ Yellow41 on Redskinsheads

04-14-2008, 06:33 PM	#21
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 51 Posts: 10,442	Re: BitterGate haven't you heard any of the " mistakes" of McCain speaking on behalf of Iran? __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

04-14-2008, 07:00 PM	#22
SmootSmack The Bluths Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,105	Re: BitterGate I think Obama said last week that McCain is not a warmonger. I think McCain has a much better understanding of the dangers and impact of war than the other candidates, and while it as at times disconcerting to think of more battles overseas, it's also a bit scary to think of what might happen if we just pack our bags and go home. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

04-14-2008, 09:46 PM	#25
KLHJ2 Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 34 Posts: 5,829	Re: BitterGate When it comes to providing the troops to support UN operations, we are the UN. I disagreed with going, but I did not disagree with staying there as long as we have. Now we need to shift focus and get out of there. It's time to take the training wheels off of the Iraqi government. If we start the redeployment process and the downsizing of troops now it could still take a couple if not a few more years to completely pull out of there. The sad thing is that I do not see us ever pulling out completely. Iraq is nothing more than a strategic military foothold to the middle east. It doesn't matter who we elect in my opinion, the sad truth that I just mentioned will be the truth for any candidate. I suggest picking your candidate based on the rest of their policies and not Iraq. __________________ Read "The Book", life will gain meaning.

04-14-2008, 11:21 PM	#30
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Location: MA Age: 32 Posts: 2,836	Re: BitterGate This week was the bloodiest in Iraq this year, the majority of Iraqis feel that the American presence is worsening the security situation, and Colin Powell became the latest person to point out that our troop levels are unsustainable. So what's the plan? What does McCain understand that I don't? What is the endgame and what is McCain going to do to accomplish it? It's easy to say packing up and going home is bad but unless things change (and they haven't in five years, come on, not really) where is the honor in remaining? And Obama's comments were stupid. But at least he knows the difference between Shiite and Sunni.

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