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Old 04-15-2008, 05:25 PM   #46
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Without question...my tax money is being wasted without my consent!
But on the flip side, a lot of your tax money, perhaps most of it, is being put to good use?
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:35 PM   #47
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Re: BitterGate

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But on the flip side, a lot of your tax money, perhaps most of it, is being put to good use?
That might be true, but I figure all of it should be put to good use.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:42 PM   #48
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
haven't you heard any of the " mistakes" of McCain speaking on behalf of Iran?
No thats why I asked.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:35 PM   #49
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Re: BitterGate

Oh and I'm bitter about this: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:31 PM   #50
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I am upset about a lot of things, our foreign policy, the fact that we have a large presence in so many places, that our defense budget is enormous and that the defense supplemental bill is disgustingly huge, that we are in Iraq even though we can't "fix" it, that we are not in a position to chastise China for their disregard for human right.

I want most of the troops back home (including those in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc) and for us to go after terrorist wherever they might be (Afghanistan) intelligently. I want the draft back so chickenhawks get called up to serve.
But more than anything you're upset that you went to the playoff game against the Seahawks, and we lost. Aren't you?
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:50 PM   #51
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Re: BitterGate

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yeah, that's something worth being bitter about. Sick.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:04 PM   #52
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
great post. and i agree witrh most of it
Thanks, its about time we agreed on something. Out of curiosity, what did you not agree with? I would like to feed off of that so that we can get back to square 1. JK
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:18 PM   #53
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Re: BitterGate

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The fact that you think how long the war is waged is irrelevant shocks me. You may not believe in the war but you lack vision and empathy. Vision required to see that there can't be a happy ending to the war no matter when it actually ends. Empathy required to identify with the soldiers who are serving multiple tours of duty, 15 month deployments and face stop loss.

I am spineless.
Let me preface my remarks with the following. My father is a Korean immigrant. Many of my family members were executed by advancing communist forces in the weeks following North Korea's invasion of South Korea. Many of my family members' lives were saved by American troops.

In light of the above, it should come as no surprise that I shudder when I hear Americans talk about how we need to abandon the Iraqi people. Those same people who are clamoring for the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq are oftentimes the very same individuals who are clamoring for us to get involved in Darfur and similar humanitarian crises. So let me get this straight, the U.S. invaded Iraq, left Iraqi society in tatters, and are watching genocide/ethnic cleansing occur, but we need to leave. Conversely, the U.S. did not cause the mess in Darfur yet we have an obligation to end the genocide there. When someone explains that mental clusterf**k to me, I'll rest easy.

Regardless of who started the war and why, we have an obligation to do our utmost to fix the messes we've made. Leaving Iraq and the thousands of persons who have stuck their necks out in working with would be a disgraceful and cowardly act.

End threadjack.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:47 PM   #54
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Re: BitterGate

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But more than anything you're upset that you went to the playoff game against the Seahawks, and we lost. Aren't you?
Absolutely...I'm double bitter cause it happened in 05 and 07. Co-worker came over today gloating about the fact that Skins are going to be coming to Seattle next season and that we're going to get our asses handed to us yet again...I'm definitely bitter about losing to the Seahawks time after time.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:58 PM   #55
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Let me preface my remarks with the following. My father is a Korean immigrant. Many of my family members were executed by advancing communist forces in the weeks following North Korea's invasion of South Korea. Many of my family members' lives were saved by American troops.

In light of the above, it should come as no surprise that I shudder when I hear Americans talk about how we need to abandon the Iraqi people. Those same people who are clamoring for the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq are oftentimes the very same individuals who are clamoring for us to get involved in Darfur and similar humanitarian crises. So let me get this straight, the U.S. invaded Iraq, left Iraqi society in tatters, and are watching genocide/ethnic cleansing occur, but we need to leave. Conversely, the U.S. did not cause the mess in Darfur yet we have an obligation to end the genocide there. When someone explains that mental clusterf**k to me, I'll rest easy.

Regardless of who started the war and why, we have an obligation to do our utmost to fix the messes we've made. Leaving Iraq and the thousands of persons who have stuck their necks out in working with would be a disgraceful and cowardly act.

End threadjack.
There is a huge difference between preemptive war and a war with broad support that doesn't consist of just us and the "coalition of the willing." The fact is we are all alone, nothing has changed in 5 years and nothing seems to be changing. You give me a good proposal for ending the war in good terms and I'm there with you. I suspect once the dipshit in the white house and his heir apparent are out of the picture maybe we can get some international help that allows us to walk away. We might actually start talking to people, imagine that?
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:59 PM   #56
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Absolutely...co-worker came over today gloating about the fact that Skins are going to be coming to Seattle next season and that we're going to get our asses handed to us yet again...I'm definitely bitter about losing to the Seahawks time after time.
That should have been a home game for us. We can beat them on our own turf. Their stadium is absurdly loud.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:32 PM   #57
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
There is a huge difference between preemptive war and a war with broad support that doesn't consist of just us and the "coalition of the willing." The fact is we are all alone, nothing has changed in 5 years and nothing seems to be changing. You give me a good proposal for ending the war in good terms and I'm there with you. I suspect once the dipshit in the white house and his heir apparent are out of the picture maybe we can get some international help that allows us to walk away. We might actually start talking to people, imagine that?
I think the administration has, to some degree, realized that it's "you're either with us or against us" mentality isn't working. Privately, our government has been negotiating with the Iranians to stabilize Iraq. That's a big step in the right direction.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:22 AM   #58
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
Let me preface my remarks with the following. My father is a Korean immigrant. Many of my family members were executed by advancing communist forces in the weeks following North Korea's invasion of South Korea. Many of my family members' lives were saved by American troops.

In light of the above, it should come as no surprise that I shudder when I hear Americans talk about how we need to abandon the Iraqi people. Those same people who are clamoring for the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq are oftentimes the very same individuals who are clamoring for us to get involved in Darfur and similar humanitarian crises. So let me get this straight, the U.S. invaded Iraq, left Iraqi society in tatters, and are watching genocide/ethnic cleansing occur, but we need to leave. Conversely, the U.S. did not cause the mess in Darfur yet we have an obligation to end the genocide there. When someone explains that mental clusterf**k to me, I'll rest easy.

Regardless of who started the war and why, we have an obligation to do our utmost to fix the messes we've made. Leaving Iraq and the thousands of persons who have stuck their necks out in working with would be a disgraceful and cowardly act.

End threadjack.
I used to work with a guy who escaped from Cambodia and the stories he would tell me were unbelievable. Most of us only experience danger at the movies. Then you meet someone who lived a movie and your first reaction is to call bullshit. Then you think, "This guy's a database specialist that makes twice what I do and drives a brand new Lexus. He has no need to impress me."

Regardless of what happens in this election, I think we will honor our committment to Iraq. If the Democrats attain power, they will maintain some presence and the press will dutifully change the subject so that Baraq or Hillary don't suffer for the fact that they end up doing the same thing McCain will do. Our troops in Iraq will get about as much media attention as our troops in Korea or Bosnia or Germany. The thing that's amazing is that the people who are really in the know all understand that this is the game. They rant and rave for Bush to do something (withdraw) that they would never ask a Democrat to do. I'm talking about NBC, ABC, CBS, The NYT, the LAT, WaPo. If I could bet on these things, my troubles would be over very quickly. I can see it as though it's already happened.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:23 AM   #59
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Re: BitterGate

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
I think the administration has, to some degree, realized that it's "you're either with us or against us" mentality isn't working. Privately, our government has been negotiating with the Iranians to stabilize Iraq. That's a big step in the right direction.
I agree with this. Where did you hear about these negotiations?
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:18 AM   #60
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Re: BitterGate

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I agree with this. Where did you hear about these negotiations?
Here's one link

U.S., Iran Plan Talks on Pacifying Iraq - washingtonpost.com
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