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Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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Old 05-12-2008, 09:53 PM   #16
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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What's amazing to me is that Obama is now clearly the candidate in waiting, yet he will probably lose West Virginia by 20 or more points tomorrow. His appeal seems to be somewhat limited.
If Obama's appeal is somewhat limited, HRC and JM have even less appeal. Obama is beating Hillary and also is beating McCain in head to head matches.
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Old 05-13-2008, 07:40 AM   #17
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:01 AM   #18
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially
Part of the problem is the double standard that exists in politics. Had McCain made the remarks Hillary made recently (Obama being weak with hard working white americans without college education) he would have been castigated as a rascist and the redneck jokes would have been flying. Yes, Hillary caught some flak, but does anyone seriously think that she was treated the same way a republican would have been?

Apparently, it's okay to make rascist remarks if as long as your our rascist.

Until both parties stop playing racism as a "card", legitmate attacks on rascism will always be viewed with skepticism.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:41 PM   #19
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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She should concede. Staying in at this point is only making things worse for the Dems.
You are correct.

This is why she should continue to screech and lie.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:42 PM   #20
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

agreed. somehow, the Clinton's thought it was OK to declare Bill " the first black president". its funny, once. every primary, all the news networks tell us that so and so is doing well with certain ethnic groups. why? all i need is who won, and who lost. but then again, the United States has never had 2 candidates that weren't white men.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:35 PM   #21
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

What I find interesting is how the media has decided to slice and dice the electorate into so many categories this year. It's totally over analysis, in my opinion.

The Dems have never done well with the so called Reagan Democrats, or the blue collar "white voter", as Hillary put it.

This isn't specific to Barack Obama, but it has certainly raised some eyebrows due to race and gender playing such an important role in this election.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:40 PM   #22
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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If Obama's appeal is somewhat limited, HRC and JM have even less appeal. Obama is beating Hillary and also is beating McCain in head to head matches.
My point is how can he be losing to her by 20 points anywhere when everyone knows he's going to win. It's like betting on the loser of the game after you know the score. It speaks to a deep-seated dissatisfaction with Obama as the candidate in many circles. This can be exploited by Republicans very easily. There are entire demographics where he has almost no support and those are voters the Dermocrats need to reach out to. People keep talking about all the new people Obama is bringing in but his supporters (blacks, college professors, homosexuals, labor unions, vegans, pot devotees, the tattoos and piercings set, single white guys trying to impress this girl they like who is really into politics, etc) are all people who vote Democratic all the time anyway. He may have made these people more enthusiastic and they are not embarrased by him the way they were of say, Dukakis, but it's the same old people.

And, any Democrat should be trouncing any Republican this year, yet the polls are quite close, and I have not seen one that shows Obama's support at greater than 50%.

I was also interested to see that BHO has thrown all the people that defended his choice not to wear an American Flag lapel pin under the bus, by choosing to wear an American Flag lapel pin. Of course, throwing people under the bus is like taking out the garbage for this guy. He does it every Tuesday.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:44 PM   #23
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

I don't think McCain will play the race card, I hope his followers don't either but I am less certain of that.

Regardless of the outcome, I would be most pleased if Obama's skin color didn't become a factor into the election. Let people hold what opinions they may - to some degree that simply isn't going to change (Not saying it's right, just that it is). If race becomes an ugly factor in the election, it will set this country wayyy back.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:46 PM   #24
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially

So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:07 PM   #25
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.
You bring up some good points, 70. It was Toni Morrison that declared Bill the first black Prez., but she has recently backed away from those statements, saying she didn't mean it quite "that way". Okay, whatever.

As far as Black America and the Clintons are concerned, I think Black America has learned the hard way what kind of politicians the Clintons really are. But as loyal as they were in supporting him/them, I think to a great extent, they'll most certainly dishonor them at the polls in Fall, provided that Hillary somehow get's the nomination. She can stick a fork in the black vote, because it's cooked.

I wouldn't read too much into the national polls right now. By any measurement, it's still early. We all know how fickled those national polls can be anyway. We haven't had a single debate between the respective, presumptive nominees yet, so those polls are pretty meaningless if you ask me.
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:04 PM   #26
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

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The Dems have never done well with the so called Reagan Democrats, or the blue collar "white voter", as Hillary put it.
If you limit your view to the past 30 years perhaps, and take out union voters. And remove the quotations around "white" because you can't separate race from current party alignments, particularly in the South. It is impossible to separate the erosion of the 'Solid South' from issues of race and the Civil Rights Revolution. The Reagan Democrats were the end of a long process that went back to the New Deal, Eisenhower's national popularity, Johnson and Civil Rights, Barry Goldwater, Nixon's Southern Strategy, Democratic rules replacing seniority in committee assignments, etc.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:09 PM   #27
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

Bitter political arguments aside, I think you've got to admit that this election has the potential to be one of the most interesting in recent memory.

We're coming off one of the most hated presidents in a long time (if ever) and with an incredibly polarized country that seems split right down the middle.

Regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, I'm so curious to see how the race shapes up. Bush is loathed by the majority, but loathed enough that lifetime Republicans would vote for Obama or Clinton? How does a large scale war and a faltering economy fit in with all the political vitriol? What's the fallout of 8 years of Bush on both parties? Like someone else here said, to hear the media you'd think ANY Democrat would walk away with the election in hand, but that doesn't seem to be what early polls are indicating.

Fascinating to say the least.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:54 PM   #28
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

It's the first presidential race since 1948 where there wasn't an incumbent of some sort running. That alone has made it more interesting.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:56 PM   #29
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

I'm really curious to see who the VP choices will be. And what, if any, roles Hillary and Bush will have at the Democratic and Republican conventions, respectively.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:03 PM   #30
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Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?

What's she's doing is just unbelievable. It's really sad and pathetic to see her and Bill reduced to this.

Also, it seems like they keep pushing the goalpost with their arguments. The magic number is no longer 2025, it 2209 now which includes Michigan and Florida now.
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