Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


Perspective on Iran

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2008, 08:50 PM   #1
Wildcard Bitches
 
RobH4413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 2,488
Perspective on Iran

Just finished taking a course on Islam in Iran this semester and it blew my mind how little I knew about Islam and the Middle East. Especially the US involvement in the 1950's.

Thought I should share, and hear some of the thoughts of others on the board.

Iran wasn't always the big bad radical state it now is. It actually had a democracy, and we overthrew it. Some argue that if we didn't do it, then the Soviets would have, so it was necessary. While I understand the Soviet threat was real, I personally don't buy it.

This quote from a prisoner during the 1979 hostage crisis kind of gives you perspective on some of what this country does under the radar, and the blowback that comes with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/3/stephen_kinzer_on_the_us_iranian
He said, “I had been sitting in my solitary cell as a hostage for about a year, when one day the cell door opens, and there is standing one of the hostage takers, one of my jailers. And all of my rage and my fury built up over one year sitting in that cell just burst out, and I started screaming at him, and I was telling him, ‘You have no right to do this! This is cruel, this is inhumane! These people have done nothing! This is a violation of every law of god and man! You cannot take innocent people hostage!’” He said, “I went on like this for several minutes. When I was finally out of breath, the hostage taker paused for a moment, and then he leaned into my cell and said, in very good English, ‘You have no right to complain, because you took our whole country hostage in 1953.’"
__________________
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!
RobH4413 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 05-19-2008, 09:23 PM   #2
MVP
 
mooby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NoVa
Age: 26
Posts: 11,912
Re: Perspective on Iran

Wow, that was a very good video. I had no idea that Iran used to be a democracy. After watching that video I feel that while it was very wrong for us to overthrow their government, especially just because the main benefit was for the British, there's not much that can be done about it now. I can only wonder what if we knew that Iran's democratic leader in '53 pretty much hated communism, would we have called bs on the British? Either way what's done is done and we can't take that back now. I do wish we could get on good terms with Iran though now.
mooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008, 09:29 PM   #3
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,678
Re: Perspective on Iran

Didn't the whole thing start because of well...oil? If I remember right the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (or something like that) was some sort of joint agreement between Britain and Persia (ultimately Iran) for Britain to tap into Persia/Iran's oil reserves and in exchange citizens of Iran would get certain benefits (jobs, better schools, stronger infrastructure).

Which apparently didn't really happen (I don't know, I wasn't around in the '50s). And then some secular, democratic leader was elected in Iran who listened to the cries for nationalizing this oil company, which eventually became BP.

And the British got mad and sought the US' help. But not much really happened because President Truman had a "containment" philosophy. Yet within a few months Eisenhower became President and his "interventionist" philosophy bode well for the British and reinstated the pro-Western Shah; who was essentially a puppet. Until the Iranians had enough and overthrew him in the late 70s.

Or something like that
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008, 09:30 PM   #4
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,678
Re: Perspective on Iran

Hahaha. Ooops. I guess I could have just watched the video first
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008, 11:21 PM   #5
Franchise Player
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 9,951
Re: Perspective on Iran

Perfect example of why we need to get the hell out of the middle east ASAP. I mean that from an oil stand point. We have to rid ourselves of the shackles of dealing with these people because ultimately we can't make the ight decision because most of the choices are bteween two evils. We have spent so much time and effort trying to back channel, subvert and control there is no wonder that they hate us. Continuing to stay means we have to continue the same type of things and that just screws us more.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 06:54 AM   #6
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,517
Re: Perspective on Iran

it wasn't that long ago when we handed guns and ammunition to Al Quaeda( sp?) to try and thwart the Russian advances. these types of decisions are always short term fixes.
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 09:31 AM   #7
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: Perspective on Iran

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
it wasn't that long ago when we handed guns and ammunition to Al Quaeda( sp?) to try and thwart the Russian advances. these types of decisions are always short term fixes.
We never gave guns to Al Qaeda. We gave guns to the mujahadeen. Granted, many members of the muj are current members of terrorist organizations, but some of them are still allies (e.g., the Northern Alliance). Just as McCain shouldn't confuse AQI with Shia groups, we shouldn't confuse the muj with AQ.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 10:25 AM   #8
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,517
Re: Perspective on Iran

weren't these the same terrorists that were in Afghanistan during the half assed Russian coup? whatever they want to call themselves, it makes no difference
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 10:45 AM   #9
Living Legend
 
Monkeydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 35
Posts: 16,275
Re: Perspective on Iran

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
Perfect example of why we need to get the hell out of the middle east ASAP. I mean that from an oil stand point. We have to rid ourselves of the shackles of dealing with these people because ultimately we can't make the ight decision because most of the choices are bteween two evils. We have spent so much time and effort trying to back channel, subvert and control there is no wonder that they hate us. Continuing to stay means we have to continue the same type of things and that just screws us more.
From an oil standpoint, you are correct.
Monkeydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 11:31 AM   #10
Eternally Legendary
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 9,926
Re: Perspective on Iran

Having historical context really helps in defeating the dumb notions of "they hate us because of our freedoms" and "Islamofascism."
__________________
"The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder."

-Jenkins
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 12:28 PM   #11
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: Perspective on Iran

I really do not know very much about our history with Iran but it does not surprise me that our left leaning higher institutions of learning blame us for all the ill's in the world.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 12:34 PM   #12
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,678
Re: Perspective on Iran

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
weren't these the same terrorists that were in Afghanistan during the half assed Russian coup? whatever they want to call themselves, it makes no difference
Someone want to explain this?
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 12:54 PM   #13
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 51
Posts: 8,648
Re: Perspective on Iran

No. Just let him rant mindlessly. Why study history and get your facts straight? It only inhibits your ability to employ demagougery and hyperbole.

It's appeasement dammit.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 12:56 PM   #14
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: Perspective on Iran

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Having historical context really helps in defeating the dumb notions of "they hate us because of our freedoms" and "Islamofascism."
I think it's safe to say that most garden variety terrorists hate the U.S. because of its foreign policy. I think, however, that many fringe terrorists do despise the American way of life. I recently finished reading a biography of Osama and he apparently grew to despise the West after living in Beruit and seeing how discos, drugs and alcohol (all of which he attributed to the West) corrupted the Lebanese youth. Moreover, there's no question that many "Islamofascists" think democracy is heretical and immoral, as society should be governed according to religious law and by religious leaders. Many "Islamofascists" think Westerners are hedonistic, impulsive, and immoral.

I don't know why people want to lump all terrorists together. Terrorist organizations are not a monolith. Each has its own reasons for being. So, to say ALL terrorist organizations hate Americans because of U.S. foreign policy is wrong IMO.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2008, 01:36 PM   #15
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,517
Re: Perspective on Iran

sorry again, sheriff. i was under the belief that the mulahadeen and al qaeda where one and the same. my bad
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.42227 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25