Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


Understanding the Issues: Education

Parking Lot


View Poll Results: Do You Agree with Obama's Stance on Education?
Yes (Agree with more than 75%) 15 75.00%
No (Agree with less than 25%) 1 5.00%
Not Sure 4 20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2008, 11:44 PM   #31
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
not really, since obama is so willing to really jack up tax rates and his foreign policy statements overall haven't been very good (and prove a lack of experience with how the world works). I still don't think the "aura of change" is going to matter much once congress opens if he's in charge. It might help him push through a few issues early, but i don't think it'll hold up too well unless he can flip the economy into a strong boom within 18 months due to his policies, which i REALLY don't see happening.

either candidate will be better on science than bush though, so false "studies" with badly tainted/wrong "scientific results" should decrease either way, which i'm really looking forward to. both will probably do a little work on lobbyists reform or whatnot, which will be welcome, though minor.
Unless I am not privy to some information you are my understanding is that he is going to "jack up" the tax rate on the top 2% of income earners. These are the same people who hardly pay the same tax rate as middle class Americans.

As for his foreign policy statements, what exactly rubs you the wrong way? I mean, seriously, should we continue to plug a square peg in a round hole? Whatever we're currently doing isn't working so shouldn't we try something difference? Talking to people isn't naive, it's the most sensible thing to do. Even if you don't get anywhere by talking it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. "Bomb bomb bomb" doesn't work.

I don't get all the experience talk either. I mean, no one in their right mind hires someone based on experience alone. You can have all the experience in the world and still be a worthless POS. It's policy, policy, policy!

p.s. Greg Brown has experience...I would throw that mother f*cker under the bus, over the bridge, and if possible, in the lion's den at the zoo.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 06-11-2008, 12:56 AM   #32
MVP
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 36
Posts: 10,070
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Just curious, has anyone's opinion changed or been affected on who they will vote for based on these Understanding The Issues threads I've started?
Not really because I am philosophically opposed to much of the democratic platform that Obama adhere's to.

Look, I think what almost everyone, and I do mean everyone, wants is a change in the way this whole damn thing works. I am not talking about WHAT our government is doing but more about HOW it is doing it. We all pretty much feel our elected officials have done a shit job. Really they have. Democrats and Republicans alike. Neither more than the other. What we want, crave really, is some magical solution to the cluster f*ck that is our Federal Government. Well I've got news for everyone (news I think we all know deep down inside already)...not a single candidate we currently have or have disposed of in the past 18 months really has or had any chance to fix this deal. Obama can TALK about change all he wants but lord help me if I can figure out how he alone can possibly fix it. Remember, the problems we face aren't born out of bad policy couched in the politics of two parties more than they are based on a system that is broken. A system that is a self prepetuating organism of power seeking and money making fueled by about 2000-3000 DC politicans that either don't have the stones to stand in its way(at best) or who jump on board the train and ride it until they die(at worst). Oh at times they all get together and either sign some legislation that inevitably goes awry or bicker back and forth on some issue and end up doing nothing at all. It appears they are working for us but in the end they don't run the show: special interests do. Special interets, everything from big dick oil to big flaming gays have one hand in the cookie jar and the other in the pockets of various politicians. We can't directly do much about special interests but we can fire the ones who have given them their power. If we want REAL change it is going to take a hell of a lot more than one candidate for President or even one elected President to make it happen. We have to stop voting for people because of what party they are in or because of one single issue. Hell skip the issues altogether. Let's vote for people who we believe CAN fight the culture. Let's fight to get the same old crap politicians OFF OF BALLOTS so we can have a fighter's chance at getting real honest people in there. That could be all it takes. Seriously, I think a cross section of this board, maybe 20-30 people of varying opinions, could adequately govern this nation and that is a hell of a lot better than the current jackasses are doing. So my question is this. How the hell do we do this? I am not talking about electing Obama or McCain, no magical and unrealistic solution. I am asking what is the game plan here? We have a bunch of smart people in this country, even have one or two here on this board , so why the hell are we stuck with the shitpile we've got now?
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 01:11 AM   #33
MVP
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 36
Posts: 10,070
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

As for education:

The standardized tests suck. They do. They destroy the way our teachers teach and kids suffer. But ultimately we have to have some way to figure out which teachers are doing good jobs and which aren't. Not to burst any bubbles but seeing as my wife went to a college focused on educating future teachers and my father in law is a local school board member I know rather well how a good amount of our teachers are simply bad at their jobs. I'd say roughly ALL of her college friends were education majors and many struggled with basic studies in some form or another. Even in college we always said if we ever had kids she only had two friends she'd let teach them. And many of these same people graduated with decent grades and appeared to be able bodied teachers ready to conquer the world. Most were numbskulls. The teaching profession in this country attracts much of the worst. It does. Can't figure out what you want to do with life? Try teaching. There are always jobs and you can't get fired. Perfect job for the unmotivated and/or dumb. There certainly are a few good teachers out there and then there is a decent amount of adequate teachers but there are a lot of bad teachers and we need a way to find them and make them better or fire them.

Teachers need to get paid more by a lot and need to be rewarded for doing a good job. How we measure that I don't know honestly but the current way isn't much better than not knwoing.

The ones not doing a good job have to go.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 01:21 AM   #34
The Starter
 
steveo395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,674
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Unless I am not privy to some information you are my understanding is that he is going to "jack up" the tax rate on the top 2% of income earners. These are the same people who hardly pay the same tax rate as middle class Americans.
Quote:
Every Democrat running for President wants to raise taxes on "the rich," but they will have to do something miraculous to outtax President Bush. Based on the latest available tax data, no Administration in modern history has done more to pry tax revenue from the wealthy.
The rich pay a higher rate than middle class Americans. The top 1% earns 21% of the income, but pays 39% percent of the taxes. That means they are paying a higher rate than the people below them. Bush did lower the tax rates for these people, but the amount of taxes they paid has increased. Raising taxes does not raise tax revenue. When the taxes are lower, the economy does much better and there is more total income. The rich people are the ones creating the jobs. The more you tax them, the more it will hurt the economy.
Quote:
Last week the Congressional Budget Office joined the IRS in releasing tax numbers for 2005, and part of the news is that the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes that year. The richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%. These tax shares are all up substantially since 1990, and even somewhat since 2000. Meanwhile, Americans with an income below the median -- half of all households -- paid a mere 3% of all income taxes in 2005. The richest 1.3 million tax-filers -- those Americans with adjusted gross incomes of more than $365,000 in 2005 -- paid more income tax than all of the 66 million American tax filers below the median in income. Ten times more
Obama also wants to raise the capital gains tax, even though more tax revenue comes from it when the tax rate is lower.
Quote:
The amount of capital gains declared on tax forms has doubled since the tax rate was cut to 15% from 20% in 2003, which has also contributed to more Americans being "rich." Dividend income has also increased by at least 50% since that rate was cut to 15% from nearly 40% in 2003.
This is a very good article about taxes.
Taxes and Income - WSJ.com


...sorry about this being off-topic.
__________________

steveo395 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 01:33 AM   #35
The Starter
 
steveo395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,674
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
As long as your school/teachers are striking the appropriate balance between teaching the core material and teaching how to analyze the questions, then I think the kids are in good shape. Remember, kids don't take these tests every year. They take them in like 1st grade, then 4th, then 7th, then 11th. Or something like that (I don't know the exact years). But my point is there are like 3 or 4 years between tests. In all that time, kids are not spending an inordinate amount of time on the test analysis. They're getting the building blocks over time, then when they come to the year for test time, then they get the analysis stuff.

I'll bet if you ask 4th grade teachers (or whatever year they administer the test), they're probably the ones most aggravated and affected. The other teachers probably don't care much, as they get to focus on core curriculum.
I remember I had big standardized tests in 4th, 8th, and 11th grade and there was very little review for all of them. We would get a little bit of practice with them in the couple weeks before the tests and that was about it. There was very little standardized test review throughout the whole time I was in school. And I just graduated high school a year ago, so this was not very long ago.
__________________

steveo395 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:34 AM   #36
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 32
Posts: 16,598
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Unless I am not privy to some information you are my understanding is that he is going to "jack up" the tax rate on the top 2% of income earners. These are the same people who hardly pay the same tax rate as middle class Americans.

As for his foreign policy statements, what exactly rubs you the wrong way? I mean, seriously, should we continue to plug a square peg in a round hole? Whatever we're currently doing isn't working so shouldn't we try something difference? Talking to people isn't naive, it's the most sensible thing to do. Even if you don't get anywhere by talking it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. "Bomb bomb bomb" doesn't work.

I don't get all the experience talk either. I mean, no one in their right mind hires someone based on experience alone. You can have all the experience in the world and still be a worthless POS. It's policy, policy, policy!

p.s. Greg Brown has experience...I would throw that mother f*cker under the bus, over the bridge, and if possible, in the lion's den at the zoo.
talking to our enemies while bombing our allies (iran/pakistan) then later pulling back on talking to iran. his foreign policy outside of a massively oversped pull out (another bad idea) seems very haphazard, and he's had to re-state and change his opinion on an awful lot of ideas.

I only brought up his inexperience (and only in the context of foreign policy) because it's very obvious and it's made him look stupid a number of times.

as far as tax rates, it's not just the top 2% and it's not just a minor deal. he wants f'ing socialized medicine - do you have any idea what that costs? either its insanely expensive or it's worthlessly bad (ask the swedes or brits about it). the japanese have a sorta decent idea (you pay 100% upfront, the gov pays you 80% back - so if you try to defraud them, you can get yourself royally screwed and it limits exposure to the million dollar a day cases) but it'll never be cheap or paid for solely by minor tax hikes on the top 2%.

it seems like you like obama a whole lot, but he has flaws, and using strawman to try and cover them up is pretty weak.
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 05:44 AM   #37
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 32
Posts: 16,598
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

here's some (but not all) the facts on taxes...
McCain vs Obama on taxes - Fact Checker

mccain wants to keep the bush cuts, cut a few more taxes and give 2.5k-5k to individuals for health insurance. big on nuclear plants which lead to cheaper energy (and if someone finally decides to create sane nuclear fuel policy reduces the amount of radioactive waste to nothing and makes it even cheaper, probably not happening short term though).

obama wants to expire the bush cuts (would would be the largest tax increase by value since WWII, but only the 5th largest increase by Gross National Product, which is a better indicator), increase capital gains taxes from 15 to 20%, increase taxes quite a bit on those making over 250k a year, and also offer credits to those needing health insurance. he also wants to decrease costs of health insurance with more/stricter regulation (but i strongly doubt that that happens).


obama is thinking in a much shorter term about fixing income inequality, but in the long term its hard to say that increasing the penalty for investing is a good idea. mccain's increasing tax cuts beyond bush may not be the greatest idea either. both want emission credits for polluters, which definitely isn't perfect, but i guess it's better than nothing (florida already does something like that, at least with eglin afb, where they track all use of hazmats and report it, then pay a fee per year for the total pollution created by the base).

but if you really wanted to save money, you'd increase the military to where it was before BRAC and clinton hit it instead of wasting SOOO much more money on contractors. A contracted termite exterminator makes 120k a year in iraq, an army exterminator makes 25k (closer to 40-50k with all bonuses etc). with what we've spent on contractors over the price of the old bigger military, we could have kept the bigger military for 25 more years and still be ahead. terrible economic decision.

farm subsidies is another economic issue that could easily save money, since so many people with no business in agriculture use it as a tax shelter (celebs, bankers, etc). it's like rich person welfare, only it's a lot more money, and none of the non-farmers (and a lot of corporate farmers) don't actually need it. MUCH smaller scale though than the above.
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 07:01 AM   #38
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,146
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

That Guy, start another thread on the tax debate and I'll throw up a poll there. Let's keep this thread about education
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 08:32 AM   #39
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 8,743
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Just curious, has anyone's opinion changed or been affected on who they will vote for based on these Understanding The Issues threads I've started?
I can only speak for myself, but I can't say my opinion of the candidates has changed appreciably. This is partly because I think I already have a good understanding of where they're coming from on each issue. But these threads have served to educate me and the discussion has been very intelligent and thought provoking. These threads are a tremendous motivation to get up in the morning and check The Warpath first thing.

While my opinion of the candidates themselves hasn't been appreciably altered, I have learned some details of their stances, and have been surprised at times to discover that there are some democratic things I like, and some republican things I dislike. As a result, these threads have helped me gain an understanding of just how moderate I am.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 08:39 AM   #40
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 8,743
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlydarksets View Post
I couldn't disagree more on single-parents - who deserves help more than a full-time working mother or father? What does the reason why they are doing it alone matter? Now, if they aren't working full-time then, of course, I would agree. I think that criteria would weed out a lot of the bad apples. (one opinionated opinion deserves another, right?)

As for families with two parents, $200/kid (which is not the uniform cost, of course) can be prohibitive if you have a household income of $20k (which accounts for 20% of the US households). Now, I would agree it's a murky area if you have 8 kids. But for those with even 2 kids, there just isn't $4800/year for the care they need.
To me, it matters a lot.

If you had unprotected sex before marriage and ended up as a single parent, even though you're probably receiving child support, you got yourself into that mess. I don't think it should be my responsibility as a taxpayer, who was careful to use protection during sex in my single years, to bail you out. I'm here taking care of myself and acting responsible, and now I have to pay taxes to bail these people out who didn't? I'm all for helping people who are down on their luck; ie husband was laid off from a manufacturing job and decided to run out on the family, spouse killed in an auto accident leaving a single mom raising 3 kids, etcetera. But that's only a small % of single parents, the majority are in that situation because of bad decision-making.

Now, the kids come first. So my distaste for the choices made by the parents shouldn't hold kids back. They can't help the situation they were born into. So in the end I relent; I have to say I agree with helping these kids with after-care programs.

But it doesn't taste good.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 08:43 AM   #41
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 36
Posts: 8,743
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Unless I am not privy to some information you are my understanding is that he is going to "jack up" the tax rate on the top 2% of income earners. These are the same people who hardly pay the same tax rate as middle class Americans.

As for his foreign policy statements, what exactly rubs you the wrong way? I mean, seriously, should we continue to plug a square peg in a round hole? Whatever we're currently doing isn't working so shouldn't we try something difference? Talking to people isn't naive, it's the most sensible thing to do. Even if you don't get anywhere by talking it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. "Bomb bomb bomb" doesn't work.

I don't get all the experience talk either. I mean, no one in their right mind hires someone based on experience alone. You can have all the experience in the world and still be a worthless POS. It's policy, policy, policy!

p.s. Greg Brown has experience...I would throw that mother f*cker under the bus, over the bridge, and if possible, in the lion's den at the zoo.
Whose political platform is "bomb bomb bomb?" McCain's? Bush's current record?

Nobody just "bomb bomb bombs", saden. It's that kind of uneducated generalization that makes me dismiss a lot of your political thoughts because you clearly don't have an understanding of the opposing party's political platform.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 08:53 AM   #42
Franchise Player
 
mredskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,015
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
To me, it matters a lot.

If you had unprotected sex before marriage and ended up as a single parent, even though you're probably receiving child support, you got yourself into that mess. I don't think it should be my responsibility as a taxpayer, who was careful to use protection during sex in my single years, to bail you out. I'm here taking care of myself and acting responsible, and now I have to pay taxes to bail these people out who didn't? I'm all for helping people who are down on their luck; ie husband was laid off from a manufacturing job and decided to run out on the family, spouse killed in an auto accident leaving a single mom raising 3 kids, etcetera. But that's only a small % of single parents, the majority are in that situation because of bad decision-making.

Now, the kids come first. So my distaste for the choices made by the parents shouldn't hold kids back. They can't help the situation they were born into. So in the end I relent; I have to say I agree with helping these kids with after-care programs.

But it doesn't taste good.
Wow I hope you make it through life and never make a bad decision. If my tax money went to someone to help them through a bad decision I would be happy. The sad thing is our tax money is mainly wasted on missles being used to kill other people.
mredskins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 08:55 AM   #43
Playmaker
 
724Skinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,508
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
As long as your school/teachers are striking the appropriate balance between teaching the core material and teaching how to analyze the questions, then I think the kids are in good shape. Remember, kids don't take these tests every year. They take them in like 1st grade, then 4th, then 7th, then 11th. Or something like that (I don't know the exact years). But my point is there are like 3 or 4 years between tests. In all that time, kids are not spending an inordinate amount of time on the test analysis. They're getting the building blocks over time, then when they come to the year for test time, then they get the analysis stuff.

I'll bet if you ask 4th grade teachers (or whatever year they administer the test), they're probably the ones most aggravated and affected. The other teachers probably don't care much, as they get to focus on core curriculum.
In Virginia, the SOL's are taken every grade level except kindergarten. I'm fairly certain that any state that wants to keep receiving federal money for meeting the No Child Left Behind requirements has to have some form of yearly standardized testing for every grade level.
__________________
"I hope I'm getting better. I hope you haven't seen my best." - Jim Zorn
724Skinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 09:46 AM   #44
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Just curious, has anyone's opinion changed or been affected on who they will vote for based on these Understanding The Issues threads I've started?
My opinion of the candidates hasn't been changed, but if I jump into any of these discussion it forces me to do some further research into each candidate's positions...which is a very good thing.

I think these threads are a good idea. They won't change the opinion of supporters on either side, but the posts in the thread that are thoughtful, show some level of research or critical thinking, and make an argument backed up by fact, not rhetoric will be helpful for folks out there who are truly undecided or uninformed.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 09:56 AM   #45
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,146
Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
I can only speak for myself, but I can't say my opinion of the candidates has changed appreciably. This is partly because I think I already have a good understanding of where they're coming from on each issue. But these threads have served to educate me and the discussion has been very intelligent and thought provoking. These threads are a tremendous motivation to get up in the morning and check The Warpath first thing.

While my opinion of the candidates themselves hasn't been appreciably altered, I have learned some details of their stances, and have been surprised at times to discover that there are some democratic things I like, and some republican things I dislike. As a result, these threads have helped me gain an understanding of just how moderate I am.
Well, the reason for starting them was to generate some discussion on actual issues and to go beyond inanities such as "a vote for McCain is a vote for death" (or whatever it was that said on this board recently.

Also, hopefully these are giving some of the younger chaps out there who may be voting for the first time some ammo with which to make a decision, beyond just "well my parents are voting for McCain so I guess I will too."

These are important times, and I think far too often voters simply don't know why they are making the decisions they make.

At the very least, these have been educational for me. And maybe, just maybe, I'm more of a Democrat than I ever imagined.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.51378 seconds with 10 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25