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Understanding the Issues: Education

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View Poll Results: Do You Agree with Obama's Stance on Education?
Yes (Agree with more than 75%) 15 75.00%
No (Agree with less than 25%) 1 5.00%
Not Sure 4 20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-11-2008, 10:04 AM   #46
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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To add on to what he said each time we offer a new benfit to unwed mothers or fathers it just makes it that much easier for them to keep doing what they are doing. Its not like allot of them make this mistake once, they have several children with different dads and just keep combounding the problem knowing that big goverment will do just enough to keep them going.
I agree on principle what you're saying, but the hard-working, dual-income parents suffer now because we don't want the "bad decision makers" to receive the benefits of a well funded after school program. Not increasing the funding for the program will not decrease the amount of single parents and the amount of children they have. I don't think the benefit of keeping your kids enrolled in an after school program is a consideration for having more kids out of wedlock. Parents don't warn their teenage daughters that if they have unprotected sex then their kids will go to after school programs while they work. Bottom line is there are and always will be children that need some place to go after school that is safe while their parents are working.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:06 AM   #47
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Wow I hope you make it through life and never make a bad decision. If my tax money went to someone to help them through a bad decision I would be happy. The sad thing is our tax money is mainly wasted on missles being used to kill other people.
If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:07 AM   #48
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Whose political platform is "bomb bomb bomb?" McCain's? Bush's current record?

Nobody just "bomb bomb bombs", saden. It's that kind of uneducated generalization that makes me dismiss a lot of your political thoughts because you clearly don't have an understanding of the opposing party's political platform.
I think he's probably expounding on McCain's perhaps ill-timed joke of "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" to the tune of the Beach Boys' Barbara Ann
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:43 AM   #49
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.
Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.

As far as missilies go it takes two to fight. America sticks their noses in far too much shit that is none of our business.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:18 PM   #50
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.
Nobody says they can't have food, but it is not the governments responsibility to give it to them. Whatever happened to working hard and taking responsibility for your own actions.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:23 PM   #51
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Whose political platform is "bomb bomb bomb?" McCain's? Bush's current record?

Nobody just "bomb bomb bombs", saden. It's that kind of uneducated generalization that makes me dismiss a lot of your political thoughts because you clearly don't have an understanding of the opposing party's political platform.

Whose talking about the opposing party? "Bomb bomb bomb" is a direct McCain quote, a joke he made that was not funny. He's the one that say he won't sit down unless all our demands are met. It's not funny and it's not diplomacy. Same goes for Bush.

I will have you know I know fully well what the opposing party's platform is and I disagree pretty much with their oppressive platform. Hell, they don't even honor their platform. Dismiss all you want but hey man, you're entitled to your opinion and generalizations too (poor are poor because they want to be poor).
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:25 PM   #52
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.
Just to briefly expand on that.

It may be tempting to make the seemingly reasonable suggestion that "everyone" should disarm. But the deterrent effect of military power aside, the credibility of the disarmament depends directly on the transparency of the government. For that reason, I firmly believe that, yes, democratic governments have more of a "right" to possess nuclear weapons and even WMD than non-democratic ones. I didn't have a problem when, for example, India detonated nuclear weapons in 1998. On 12/13/01, there were armed gunmen about to storm into the capitol building in Delhi and open fire on a hall full of ministers leaving session. And although that attack was traced back across the border, India did not, and has not, taken military action. I don't know that history can truly show a war between two democratic nations (unless you count the Civil War I suppose). Totalitarian regimes, however, don't have any such mechanisms of restraint against the use of such weapons for aggressive purposes.

The problem with the projection of American power is that many believe it is always done only in economic self-interest, particularly now because we have the "Oil" President. And in the 1950's and '60s, it is true that the U.S. played a hand in toppling governments in order to install "our SOBs." That history, traditional imperialism, taints all discussions of U.S. use of force today. Another problem is that, unfortunately, many Americans believe foreign affairs began on 9/11/01 because few in the U.S. had cared
about anything international since 1991. So yes, we forget that the U.S. snubbed Kyoto and the ABM Agreement (and even reneged on its agreement with N. Korea, which has contributed to the crisis there today). There was this back of the hand disdain for any order imposed by anyone but ourselves. Sort of like the kid in the cafeteria that thinks he can butt in line anywhere he wants and even swipe a piece of bread off someone else's tray if he wants too. Then everything changed.

So we have this amnesia and in that amnesia we believe that the sun was shining, the birds were chirping, the kids were playing and then, all of a sudden, one fine day, "we were attacked." Unprovoked, unjustified, as if there had been no history before then. And because of that we operate under this philosophy of "good vs. evil." We brainwash ourelves with our own notion of "moral clarity," and in doing so don't actually think that there could be another way of looking at things. And that's all wrong. Because the U.S. can't behave irresponsibly like that. That's not the way a superpower behaves.

Like a dad, a superpower has to understand that what it does is just, if not more, important than what it says. If dad respects mom, then big brother will respect little brother and so forth. Dad doesn't need to prove he's dad; everyone knows that. But dad does need to set the tone for how everyone else in the family gets along. And the U.S. still has some growing up to do in that department.

But, like it or not, the U.S. IS the superpower of today's world. That is a fact. And because it can, it does project its power and its interest around the world. That being said, however, today's U.S. is a relatively benign superpower. It does not have traditional imperialistic territorial ambitions. It does certainly pursue its economic self-interest, but it's more profound than that. The U.S. has the lowest trade barriers (I believe) and is the dispenser of the most foreign aid, neither of which are in its immediate and direct economic self-interest. If all the U.S. wanted out of the Middle East was "oil," it could just as well have cozied up to a leader like Hussein. After all, wouldn't it have been simple certainty to invest in the one man at the switch of the spigot rather than to risk it to millions? And the U.S. is made up immigrants from all over the world, a diversity that slowly, but surely, is swaying its policies. It is the most representative country that there is.

But the U.S. does bother with these things. It bothers with defending free elections and open markets until tearing down the Iron Curtain. And it bothers with defending against genocide by a despot on trial in a docket in the Hague (the now deceased Milosevic). And it bothers now to run to the desert.

In 2000, the U.S. had a humorous and even embarrassing episode whereby it couldn't pick its own President. But for the month that that went on, the country functioned normally and not a drop of blood was shed.

In 2001, out of the clear blue sky, two airplanes took down two of our tallest buildings and 3,000 civilians with them. Not to mention an airplane that was taken down in Pennsylvania by passengers who plunged themselves to their own deaths when they realized the plane was trying to go to Washington. That same day, Congress assembled in the open air on the Capitol steps to sing a patriotic song.

As naive as this sounds, I really do believe all this "freedom" stuff. And I think the world has been and is better for it.

There’s some “Education” for you bitches!
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:33 PM   #53
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.
How comforting to those who have been killed and their families. But hey, your family is safe thanks to those missiles.

Please feel free to dismiss this post too.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #54
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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How comforting to those who have been killed and their families. But hey, your family is safe thanks to those missiles.

Please feel free to dismiss this post too.
I already have.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:43 PM   #55
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Whose talking about the opposing party? "Bomb bomb bomb" is a direct McCain quote, a joke he made that was not funny. He's the one that say he won't sit down unless all our demands are met. It's not funny and it's not diplomacy. Same goes for Bush.

I will have you know I know fully well what the opposing party's platform is and I disagree pretty much with their oppressive platform. Hell, they don't even honor their platform. Dismiss all you want but hey man, you're entitled to your opinion and generalizations too (poor are poor because they want to be poor).
I never said those words. Go back and read my posts.

I've said I'm all for helping people out who are down on their luck, such as someone who has lost a job or a single mom who lost her husband to an auto accident. But I don't like the idea of helping people who simply make poor decisions.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:44 PM   #56
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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Originally Posted by mredskins View Post
Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.

As far as missilies go it takes two to fight. America sticks their noses in far too much shit that is none of our business.
Please show me in my post history where I've ever said that the poor shouldn't be provided with food by the government.

This discussion is about after-care, programs for keeping kids busy and safe after school.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:55 PM   #57
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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I never said those words. Go back and read my posts.

I've said I'm all for helping people out who are down on their luck, such as someone who has lost a job or a single mom who lost her husband to an auto accident. But I don't like the idea of helping people who simply make poor decisions.

Apologies. I hear that train of thought so often I assumed that's what you were implying.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:26 PM   #58
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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To me, it matters a lot.

If you had unprotected sex before marriage and ended up as a single parent, even though you're probably receiving child support, you got yourself into that mess. I don't think it should be my responsibility as a taxpayer, who was careful to use protection during sex in my single years, to bail you out. I'm here taking care of myself and acting responsible, and now I have to pay taxes to bail these people out who didn't? I'm all for helping people who are down on their luck; ie husband was laid off from a manufacturing job and decided to run out on the family, spouse killed in an auto accident leaving a single mom raising 3 kids, etcetera. But that's only a small % of single parents, the majority are in that situation because of bad decision-making.

Now, the kids come first. So my distaste for the choices made by the parents shouldn't hold kids back. They can't help the situation they were born into. So in the end I relent; I have to say I agree with helping these kids with after-care programs.

But it doesn't taste good.
There are often reasons for those people that make poor life decisions... chances are they grew up in an environment with little to no guidance and no solid role models in place to help form their decision making process in to one of a responsible person.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think it's important to consider that some people didn't have the same guidance and solid support system in place during their formative years.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #59
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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talking to our enemies while bombing our allies (iran/pakistan) then later pulling back on talking to iran. his foreign policy outside of a massively oversped pull out (another bad idea) seems very haphazard, and he's had to re-state and change his opinion on an awful lot of ideas.

I only brought up his inexperience (and only in the context of foreign policy) because it's very obvious and it's made him look stupid a number of times.

as far as tax rates, it's not just the top 2% and it's not just a minor deal. he wants f'ing socialized medicine - do you have any idea what that costs? either its insanely expensive or it's worthlessly bad (ask the swedes or brits about it). the japanese have a sorta decent idea (you pay 100% upfront, the gov pays you 80% back - so if you try to defraud them, you can get yourself royally screwed and it limits exposure to the million dollar a day cases) but it'll never be cheap or paid for solely by minor tax hikes on the top 2%.

it seems like you like obama a whole lot, but he has flaws, and using strawman to try and cover them up is pretty weak.
Iran isn't our allies and Pakistan is a dictatorship we're prepping-up.

Yes I like Obama but I have some misgivings as well. Him getting up there in front of AIPAC and pandering bothered me. One part of me thinks it's just politics, another see this as a sign of things to come. I'll admit that he is not perfect but when I look at McCain and Hillary he is certainly the "lesser of the three evils."

I'd also like to add that McCain has all the experience in the world but when you look at his overall policy I really wonder how he is any difference from Bush. If people are happy with Bush that's fine but don't tell me policy wise McCain is going to be better for America than Bush or has new ideas.

As for Japan's health care system, I couldn't find any information to support your claim. I did however find this and this. Sounds like a good universal health care system to me (control prices, allow flexibility and works for everyone).

Quote:
Who provides health care in Japan?
Japan has a system of universal health coverage, although individuals may receive coverage quite differently. It can be divided into two broad categories: National Health Insurance and Employees’ Health Insurance. Membership in either program is compulsory. According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, private health insurance is rarely utilized in Japan.

Employee Health Insurance covers people who are working for medium to large companies; national or local government; or private schools. There is also a government-managed program within this plan for employees of small businesses. Premiums are based on monthly salary (excluding bonuses) and half is paid by the employer, half by the employee. The average contribution is around 4% of the person’s salary. Those covered under Employee Health Insurance pay 20% of their medical costs when hospitalized and 30% of the costs for out-patient care. Co-payments may also be required for prescription drugs. Costs are shared by the patients up to a certain ceiling, after which they receive full coverage. In case of long-term illness, the patients or the patients’ spouse receive an allowance based on their salary; in case of death, an allowance for the funeral is also paid.

National Health Insurance covers workers in agriculture, forestry, or fisheries, those that are self-employed, and those not employed (including expectant mothers, students, retirees, etc). “A working mother, for example, would withdraw from her company’s insurance and join the National scheme in her local ward or city. The local office provides a lump sum towards childbirth costs (on average around 300,000 yen) and a small monthly allowance afterwards.” Under this plan the insured pay 30% of in- or out-patient costs, as well as co-payments for prescription drugs. Similarly to the Employee Health Insurance program, patients share costs up to a certain ceiling, after which point they receive full coverage. Premiums are based on salary, property, and dependents; on average, the premiums are about 4% of salary. Coverage includes sickness, injury, necessary dental work, childbirth, and death of the insured or their dependents. Conditions and treatments not covered by this insurance plan include orthodontic work, cosmetic surgery, vaccinations, abortions, injuries incurred while drunk or fighting, and treatment outside of Japan.

There is also a national health program for the Elderly. People over 70 qualify for this program, which is funded by contributions from the two main plans.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:48 PM   #60
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Re: Understanding the Issues: Education

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While I agree a contractor makes more money up front than a person in the service the difference is in the benifits. So we pay a contractor 125 k for two years and we are done paying them but a person in the service will receive benifits for a life time making their cost much, much more. I'm not getting into which way is the best but it is much cheaper to use contractors for alot of jobs.
wha?? you mean the life time benefits after TWENTY+ YEARS of making craptacular pay? or are you forgetting the overhead paid to hal etc on top of that 120k salary (admin costs, his employer insurance and benefits, his food and housing over there, and 20% on top of that as the profit portion of the cost + contracts).

it's not cheaper, and it's not even close.
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