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New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Old 06-23-2008, 09:14 AM   #16
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Old 06-23-2008, 09:26 AM   #17
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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The weakest argument is the one that says, "Whe he made the commitment to public financing he didn't know how much money he could raise." This is like saying, "When I married my wife, I didn't realize the twenty-two year old former cheerleader was going to move in next door".
Geez - that completely misrepresents what I said. It's an absolutely valid argument, not to mention a strong one. If the goal is to avoid corruption, how does this fail to do that?


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I also find it interesting that everyone says that BHO will not be beholden to his contributors. I thought his contributors were all mom and pop salt of the earth types, so wouldn' he want to be beholden to them? The idea that Democratic givers are intrinsically more virtuous than Republican givers is an assumption the media is making that should probably be looked into.
This is such a fundamentally flawed argument. It's not about being beholden to the interests of all of his contributors. It's about being beholden to the interests of a small percentage of his (or any politician's) contributors simply due to the size of their contribution (either directly or through bundling or other fundraising). That's not what is happening here.

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In addition, Obama made the argument that he needs the money to head off GOP 527s at the pass.
I haven't heard this statement. This is the weakest argument by Obama - anyone with an ounce of foresight could see this coming, and, if it was a concern, he should not have made the pledge.

That said, the reasons I outlined above make this no worse than McCain's reversal on drilling (which I did not blast him for, either).
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:31 AM   #18
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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It doesn't destroy his word, but it doesn't necessarily help the cause of all those who defend him by simply saying "He says he's going to bring about change." That's great, but what has he actually done? When you ask the supporters that, too many are left with a blank expression. Which is a shame, because there actually is some stuff (in the brief time he's been in public office) he has done. Seems to me though that several of his supporters can't say much beyond "Well he said..." And I suspect that's in large part due to the fact that a lot of his supporters are young, first-time voters who are just now becoming interested in politics and elections.
Technically, this is change - nobody in the past 30 years has turned down public financing

If you mean the "business as usual" of money in politics, then I see your point, although I don't think it extends to his general platform of looking into new approaches. Whether you agree with it or not, he's offered alternatives in foreign policy (meeting with leaders w/o preconditions) and domestic (elimanating the income tax for some, per above).

Of course, he also has very little record at the national level, so it's easy to demand examples that you know can't be delivered (I mean the royal "you", not you, personally, SS).
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:03 AM   #19
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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You could have made your point without editing my text. That's a bad road to start heading down.
True. While he's probably correct, Obama has proven to be especially untrustworthy, whether we're looking at his words or his judgement.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:04 AM   #20
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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No shit, Bush and Co. really stunk up the joint. Taxes will have to be raised and belts will have to be tightened. Hopefully there will be fiscal discipline. I do love McCain's fuzzy plan though...continue the war, cut taxes, cut 100 billion dollars in pork even though 18 billion is spent on pork, and of course rely on American ingenuity to solve our problems.
Wow. What an intellectual argument.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:33 AM   #21
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Wow. What an intellectual argument.
and pretty one-sided. both candidates want to spend spend spend, but neither one has a viable plan as to how they plan on paying for it.

fixing medicare and social security, since they consume an ever growing piece of tax revenues, should probably be the first target. no one wants to hear that though.

maybe just make them like FEGLI (gov life insurance), where you don't have to use it, and it's retardedly expensive, but it's charges enough to pay for itself.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:37 AM   #22
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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I'd say it would be easy to find 100 billion in pork and they could double that figure. How much pork spending is added each year and how many of them are on going year after year?
i highly doubt there's 100billion in pork, and it doesn't grow like federal budgets either.

no one likes the idea of building bridges to nowhere for a tiny village worth of people (which, last i heard, got thoroughly shot down), but the truth is that congress loses more money through accountability lapse in big budget contracts (aircraft, cost+ deals, etc) than they lose in pork.
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Old 06-23-2008, 12:00 PM   #23
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Wow. What an intellectual argument.
Thank you.
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Old 06-23-2008, 12:14 PM   #24
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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and pretty one-sided. both candidates want to spend spend spend, but neither one has a viable plan as to how they plan on paying for it.

fixing medicare and social security, since they consume an ever growing piece of tax revenues, should probably be the first target. no one wants to hear that though.

maybe just make them like FEGLI (gov life insurance), where you don't have to use it, and it's retardedly expensive, but it's charges enough to pay for itself.
What's McCain's plan?

p.s. I don't claim to be a McCain fan and I in fact despise his policies and everything the republican party of today stands for. I am not impartial with respect to McCain but when I post something about him I post the truth. You are more than welcome to defend him if you feel I'm being disingenuous or inaccurate in any way.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:10 PM   #25
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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What's McCain's plan?

p.s. I don't claim to be a McCain fan and I in fact despise his policies and everything the republican party of today stands for. I am not impartial with respect to McCain but when I post something about him I post the truth. You are more than welcome to defend him if you feel I'm being disingenuous or inaccurate in any way.
the only thing i think is disingenuous is how you bash mccain relentlessly and totally omit any mention that obama is no better on the issue of how the f do we pay for things.

i mean, you're right that he plans to spend more than we have, but you mention him by name an awful lot and don't say a word about how obama has exactly the same plan (spending on lots of trinkets, like homeowner bailouts, universal health insurance, tax cuts, and no way to pay for it).

i really don't have a strong personal attachment to either, since they both seem to be pandering and promising things they most likely can't deliver.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:00 PM   #26
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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He also promised to use the public financing system for the election. Everything Obama syas must be taken with a grain of salt. His word means nothing.
What's your take on McCain's word?
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I mentioned earlier today that it was quite a thing to see John McCain denouncing Barack Obama for breaking his word on public financing when McCain himself is at this moment breaking the law in continuing to spend over the spending limits he promised to abide by through the primary season in exchange for public financing. (By the FEC's rules, we're still in the primary phase of the election and will be until the conventions.)
I want to return to this subject though because this is not hyperbole or some throw away line. He's really doing it. McCain opting into public financing, accepted the spending limits and then profited from that opt-in by securing a campaign saving loan. And then he used some clever, but not clever enough lawyering, to opt back out. And the person charged with saying what flies and what doesn't -- the Republican head of the FEC -- said he's not allowed to do that. He can't opt out unilaterally unless the FEC says he can.
Talking Points Memo | McCain Breaking the Law in Plain Sight
FEC Warns McCain on Campaign Spending
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:30 PM   #27
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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There's a lot at stake in this election, f'ck the fair play b.s.
Interesting.....it's OK to "f'ck the fair play" if it means a Democrat wins the White House. But when CIA and military intelligence officials rough up a terrorist or waterboard him in the interest of protecting American lives they should all be "outed and prosecuted" (paraphrased).
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:04 PM   #28
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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In my eye's Obama can change his mind if he want's and I just don't see what the real big deal is to start with. Maybe someone could explain why its a big deal other than just saying he flipped flopped. That article you posted about MacCain while he says its illegal he does not provide a link to anyone backing this view. He is a liberal writer who has slanted view so I would need more info and something proving that he knew he was doing something wrong. While I'd never vote for Obama I can state why and I do not have to nit pick everything he does I just need to point to his platform he is running on. McCain does not do much for me either but he is the lesser of the two.
Read the second link - it's a WP article quoting Jan Baran and Brad Smith, two of the leading Republican campaign finance attorneys. Mason is also a Republican, and a current commissioner.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:41 PM   #29
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Interesting.....it's OK to "f'ck the fair play" if it means a Democrat wins the White House. But when CIA and military intelligence officials rough up a terrorist or waterboard him in the interest of protecting American lives they should all be "outed and prosecuted" (paraphrased).

Indeed, what's your point?

It would have been nice if you added the fact that I don't think you can "out" someone that's not undercover. It would certainly have made your sexy post more interesting.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:07 PM   #30
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Re: New President Won't Have an Easy Time Paying for New Initiatives, Fiscal Experts Say

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Ok, I read more on this issue and I guess its not dead and is left up in the air because the Dem's have block Bush from appointing anyone to to fill the post that enforces the rules.
No, that's not why.

The Dems tried to get the slate appointed before Memorial Day, but the Republicans blocked it.
CQ Today - Bush Nominates Senate Rules Panel Insider to Federal Election Commission Post

Don't be fooled by the naive statement in that article that the Dems would "control" the FEC 3-2. All FEC action requires a at least a 4 vote majority. No party can "control" anything at the FEC.

Now, the Dems are holding things up:
CQ Politics | FEC Nominees To Face Senate Confirmation Vote Next Week

I don't buy the line about the lawsuit - nothing happens quickly at the FEC, and there is no question that the lawsuit will still be in OGC when the new commissioners arrive, regardless of when that is.
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