Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2008, 12:41 AM   #61
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 16,278
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Do you believe the threat from fundamental Islamists is perceived and not real? They have openly declared war on the United States and their objective is to have one world under Sharia law. Are they an immediate threat to succeed? No. However the threat they pose is very real.

I do agree with you on protecting our liberties, but allowing the government to actively pursue our enemies through surveillance IMO does not infringe on our liberties, as long as there is ultimate oversight by the legislative and judicial branch, which there is.
and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).

al qaeda has real computer infrastructure now though, they know what crypto is, this isn't going to catch anyone with half a brain or stop those using VOIP (which is much cheaper and very easy to encrypt).

I'm just saying, you're losing privacy and gaining nothing except the ability to catch really really stupid terrorists that probably aren't going to be all that effective anyways.

this would be much better at busting drug rings than anything else.
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 07-12-2008, 12:46 AM   #62
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 16,278
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

btw, if there is no watchdog group to check for abuses (even after the fact) you're pretty much guaranteed to have abuses.

BernieHund: The Political Watchdog
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 11:33 AM   #63
Playmaker
 
70Chip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manassas
Age: 43
Posts: 3,048
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

The government can listen in on me anytime they want. I hope they like being bored.

The reality is that the NSA can listen to whatever they want anytime they want and there's nothing the courts or activists or even the POTUS can do about it. This train left the station in the 1970s.





Echelon
__________________
This Monkey's Gone to Heaven

Last edited by 70Chip; 07-13-2008 at 12:32 AM.
70Chip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 12:17 PM   #64
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,341
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).
We definitely agree on this point. While I don't think war on terror itself is fake, we should be fighting it in a much more clandestine way. I don't like the idea of our troops basically being targets to draw out terrorists. Mass deployments are also ridiculously expensive.

When Bush 1 stopped from going all the way into Iraq in Desert Storm he was heavily criticized, it appears he had a lot more wisdom than many gave him credit for.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 11:31 PM   #65
Living Legend
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Springfield, VA
Age: 31
Posts: 16,278
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
We definitely agree on this point. While I don't think war on terror itself is fake, we should be fighting it in a much more clandestine way. I don't like the idea of our troops basically being targets to draw out terrorists. Mass deployments are also ridiculously expensive.

When Bush 1 stopped from going all the way into Iraq in Desert Storm he was heavily criticized, it appears he had a lot more wisdom than many gave him credit for.
they set mission goals, they drew up the contingencies, and they followed their plan.

powell is a better man than rumsfeld and cheney combined. too bad he got played in the whole deal :/. rumsfeld's "plan as you go without intel" version of waging a war is just about the stupidest thing i've ever seen.
__________________
Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 09:58 AM   #66
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).

al qaeda has real computer infrastructure now though, they know what crypto is, this isn't going to catch anyone with half a brain or stop those using VOIP (which is much cheaper and very easy to encrypt).

I'm just saying, you're losing privacy and gaining nothing except the ability to catch really really stupid terrorists that probably aren't going to be all that effective anyways.

this would be much better at busting drug rings than anything else.
Those three guys we just rescued last week from that terrorist group was done by using wire taps so it does work and who said terrorist where smart to start with.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 10:29 AM   #67
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,519
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 11:06 AM   #68
Special Teams
 
Miller101's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 362
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid
Sipps on it!?!?!? No way! He gulps it!
Miller101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 12:00 PM   #69
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid
Well I guess the guy for the AP was drinking the same stuff then.
Journal & Courier

Known as "Alliance," it began with a satellite phone call in 2003, just weeks after the Americans' surveillance plane crashed in the southern Colombian jungle, according to U.S. and Colombian investigators and court documents.
The call came from Nancy Conde, the regional finance and supply chief for the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, whose boyfriend would become the American hostages' jailer. She was calling confederates in Miami to see if they could supply the rebels with some satellite phones.
What Conde didn't know was that state security agents were listening.
U.S. law officers arrested the Miami contacts, who in exchange for promises of reduced sentences put Conde in touch with an FBI front company, according to a U.S. law enforcement official involved in the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity for security reasons.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 12:09 PM   #70
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,519
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

calm down. im just trying to have alittle fun with you
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 12:45 PM   #71
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
calm down. im just trying to have alittle fun with you
I was just responding to your post and then Millers101 post which made it sound like I made up the story. What I was pointing out that tracking the bad guys has produced results and may have saved these three guys life. I don't think this wire tapping was under FISA but it does prove to have its uses. It was the bad guys caling the US and they tapped their phones and made several arrest then got those guys phones with taps in them so they could trace them down. Not sure why it took five years but the end result was we got our guys back and caught a few more of the bad guys.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 01:47 PM   #72
Playmaker
 
BleedBurgundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,471
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Call me cynical, but I have a VERY hard time believing that this bit of legislation is going to have any actual effect on day to day intelligence gathering activities. I tend to believe that the gov is already doing just about anything and everything in their power to listen to, observe and otherwise gain knowledge of those with ideals opposed to theirs. This legislation is merely a method of covering their ass in the event that something leaks. Maybe i'm paranoid, but I have zero faith in the gov to make a decision to stop what they're doing because they've hit an ethical wall. This is just the paperwork after the fact. Of course, that's all conjecture...
__________________
"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Thomas Paine
BleedBurgundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 02:39 PM   #73
Special Teams
 
Miller101's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 362
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I was just responding to your post and then Millers101 post which made it sound like I made up the story. What I was pointing out that tracking the bad guys has produced results and may have saved these three guys life. I don't think this wire tapping was under FISA but it does prove to have its uses. It was the bad guys caling the US and they tapped their phones and made several arrest then got those guys phones with taps in them so they could trace them down. Not sure why it took five years but the end result was we got our guys back and caught a few more of the bad guys.
Hey Firstdown.........just for the record I was joking around too.

And I see your point in your post, but..........it doesn't bother you? This immunity thing? They should have passed this law first! They shouldn't have just kept Congress in the dark and broken the law. And kept on breaking the law for 7 years or so. That is bullcrud! And now, noone is going to have too answer for it.......EVEN MORE BULLCRUD!
Miller101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 03:08 PM   #74
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 53
Posts: 10,519
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

my point, i think, is the same point that guy was trying to make. if you don't have the proper checks and balances in place, the government will definitely misuse this power
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 03:58 PM   #75
Registered User
 
firstdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: chesapeake, va
Age: 50
Posts: 15,818
Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller101 View Post
Hey Firstdown.........just for the record I was joking around too.

And I see your point in your post, but..........it doesn't bother you? This immunity thing? They should have passed this law first! They shouldn't have just kept Congress in the dark and broken the law. And kept on breaking the law for 7 years or so. That is bullcrud! And now, noone is going to have too answer for it.......EVEN MORE BULLCRUD!
They had congressional hearing about this and even the Judge who testified said that the president did not break any laws. Now if you can show the evidence he broke the law then you have done more than they could do and I'm sure the Dems looked at this from all angles. Now if you feel it is breaking your rights then that is another thing but against the law it wasn't. What they just did here was to put into law the procedure the president has to follow so it is clear to all what powers he does or does not have.
firstdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.33550 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25