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Old 08-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #46
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
You mean sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis? This is really serious...I wouldn't expect us to appreciate having "defensive" missiles in our back yard seeing how defense can turn into offense real quick...pick 6, Touchdown!
From dictionary.com:
sa·ber-rat·tling Pronunciation Key - [sey-ber-rat-ling]
–noun
a show or threat of military power, esp. as used by a nation to impose its policies on other countries.

Yeah, sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis, which also was sabre-rattling at its best. I think after reading your post and re-reading mine that we are in agreement.
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #47
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Re: russia/ georgia

"Cease Fire, Cease Fire!" 2.0

-I am Mikhail Saakashvili and approve this message.

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Old 08-20-2008, 06:16 PM   #48
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Re: russia/ georgia

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If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.
I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:42 PM   #49
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Re: russia/ georgia

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I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."
I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:43 PM   #50
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Re: russia/ georgia

I can't believe Russia threatened nuclear force against Poland for accepting this deal. That just pisses me off.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:21 AM   #51
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!
In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own for the last decade.

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?

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Old 08-21-2008, 08:49 AM   #52
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!
First off, Russia is not going to invade Poland over this. But if they did...

Your lack of understanding of the United States military is astounding. We would easily overwhelm the Russians in defense of Poland if necessary, in concert with other NATO forces. Our air and naval capabilities are far superior. We can strike faster from more places through the air than anybody else in the world, by far.

Keep in mind, if Russia invaded Poland we wouldn't just send a ground troop force into Poland. We would send air strikes into the heart of Russia and take out strategic targets: communication systems, power plants, military bases, etcetera. We would cripple their home defenses and cut off any invading force within Poland. This would not be difficult for our Air Force.

Our ground forces are stretched a bit thin these days, but keep in mind we have about 1 million active service men and women. We have active ground forces located at bases in Germany and throughout other parts of Europe. In conjunction with NATO forces and our air attacks, we would be able to successfully defend Poland... and Russia knows it.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:50 AM   #53
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own for the last decade.

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?

Their military isn't what it use to be and ours is so overstretched it's practically useless. What they do have is nukes, and as we know you don't attack countries with nukes, you negotiate with them. I do believe Russia would attack Poland because I seriously would if I were them. There's no way in hell I would let a neighboring country put "defensive" missiles in my backyard. It's a legitimate concern on their part just as it would be if we were in their shoes.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:55 AM   #54
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Re: russia/ georgia

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First off, Russia is not going to invade Poland over this. But if they did...

Your lack of understanding of the United States military is astounding. We would easily overwhelm the Russians in defense of Poland if necessary, in concert with other NATO forces. Our air and naval capabilities are far superior. We can strike faster from more places through the air than anybody else in the world, by far.

Keep in mind, if Russia invaded Poland we wouldn't just send a ground troop force into Poland. We would send air strikes into the heart of Russia and take out strategic targets: communication systems, power plants, military bases, etcetera. We would cripple their home defenses and cut off any invading force within Poland. This would not be difficult for our Air Force.

Our ground forces are stretched a bit thin these days, but keep in mind we have about 1 million active service men and women. We have active ground forces located at bases in Germany and throughout other parts of Europe. In conjunction with NATO forces and our air attacks, we would be able to successfully defend Poland... and Russia knows it.

Invade Poland no, disrupt and dismantle their bases, yes. Wow, you
a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland, b) drastically underestimate Russia, c) overestimate US military capabilities while it's bogged down in two wars.

I suggest you don't talk of going to war with Russia as if it's a trivial matter. You are talking about a nation with enough nuclear power to destroy the whole planet.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:08 AM   #55
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Re: russia/ georgia

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a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland
Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:16 AM   #56
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?
The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:18 AM   #57
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Re: russia/ georgia

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The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.
I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:25 AM   #58
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Re: russia/ georgia

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Invade Poland no, disrupt and dismantle their bases, yes. Wow, you
a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland, b) drastically underestimate Russia, c) overestimate US military capabilities while it's bogged down in two wars.

I suggest you don't talk of going to war with Russia as if it's a trivial matter. You are talking about a nation with enough nuclear power to destroy the whole planet.
A) The "value" of Poland is irrelevant. They are a NATO member and we're obligated to defend them.

B) Russia is strong militarily, but not capable of stopping our stealth bombers from reaching deep into their heartland and taking out strategic targets.

C) If we had to defend Poland, I'm pretty certain we'd pull out of Iraq and redirect the troops to Poland.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:28 AM   #59
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Re: russia/ georgia

This is a pointless discussion anyway. Russia would not invade Poland for a number of reasons, most notably they don't want to start a nuclear standoff with the United States.

Keep in mind, just as it was in the Cold War, nobody ever launched their nukes because they knew the other side would just end up doing the same... mutually assured destruction.

No country would ever have the incentive to actually launch nukes unless:

1) The enemy's nukes were no longer a threat or
2) The country's back was against the wall and had absolutely no other recourse.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:29 AM   #60
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Re: russia/ georgia

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I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?
No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.
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