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Old 08-29-2008, 03:32 PM   #16
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Re: Obama's Speech

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Where are you getting your numbers from?
From a McCain comercial.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:34 PM   #17
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Re: Obama's Speech

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You are missing my point if you live in butt fuck, middle america in a town with one stop light you can work your hands to the bone and there is still no jobs to advance up in.
Then you can not live in the mibdle of nowhere. It isn't impossible to work your ass off, save some money and move a couple hundred miles to your state's biggest city and find a better paying job. A lot of people using this type of excuse fail to realize they are choosing to live where there aren't any opportunities.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:47 PM   #18
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Re: Obama's Speech

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From a McCain comercial.
I can't tell if you're joking or not.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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Re: Obama's Speech

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I can't tell if you're joking or not.
No I did hear that on a McCain comercial but I have read it in other places and at the moment I can only find this article.

Larry Kudlow on Barack Obama's Economic Plan on NRO Financial=

I wanted to fined something where you would not point to the source and say bias which I would understand with this source.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:54 PM   #20
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Re: Obama's Speech

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Then you can not live in the mibdle of nowhere. It isn't impossible to work your ass off, save some money and move a couple hundred miles to your state's biggest city and find a better paying job. A lot of people using this type of excuse fail to realize they are choosing to live where there aren't any opportunities.
Most small towns that he is speaking of is not where you hear the whinning about hard work and pay. Its more in the larger cities where I hear people complaining.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:15 PM   #21
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Re: Obama's Speech

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Then you can not live in the mibdle of nowhere. It isn't impossible to work your ass off, save some money and move a couple hundred miles to your state's biggest city and find a better paying job. A lot of people using this type of excuse fail to realize they are choosing to live where there aren't any opportunities.

What if all your family lives there? Do you want to leave them. My point is you can work hard in this country that is no gtd you will move up.

The American dream that you can come here work really hard and you will make it is a bit cloudy now a days.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:18 PM   #22
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Re: Obama's Speech

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Most small towns that he is speaking of is not where you hear the whinning about hard work and pay. Its more in the larger cities where I hear people complaining.

True.

Which leads me to people that are always trying to reach the next big thing (job, car, home, etc...) They are always in a state of want. Is that a healthy way to live? Does it not make sense to simply enjoy what you have. This is one of the man reasons most Americans have money problems, living above their means.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:46 PM   #23
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Re: Obama's Speech

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What if all your family lives there? Do you want to leave them. My point is you can work hard in this country that is no gtd you will move up.

The American dream that you can come here work really hard and you will make it is a bit cloudy now a days.
Working hard or working to advance? There's a difference. I just don't buy the argument that our country doesn't present opportnities to all. Does that guarantee every single hard worker will get ahead? No. Does it guarantee that no lazy asses will get ahead? No. But it never has. Working hard to advance yourself increases the odds. By a lot. There are an amazing amount of people who simply have never grasped the idea that they need to do something to get ahead. It isn't always easy. In fact it rarely is.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:11 AM   #24
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Re: Obama's Speech

I thought the speech was very good. I thought ten ten year energy plan is genius, and a strong reason for someone who is undecided like me to give Obama my vote.

I also don't think "going through the budget line by line" is a very strong economic plan, or at least enough to eliminate the deficit AND fund renewable energy sources AND lower taxes on the middle class AND provide higher education to all.

I think the ONLY way Obama can keep all his campaign promises and not have lied is to 1) invest in offshore drilling, and 2) tax the shit out of the middle class (and big business, and the wealthy). Basically, the people like you and me. I think the lower class will see some tax breaks -- that can be fit in the budget, but he really would have to manipulate the definition of wealthy, and until I hear a hard tax proposal, I think it's safe to assume that if you consider yourself middle class, your taxes will skyrocket.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:20 AM   #25
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Re: Obama's Speech

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I wanted to fined something where you would not point to the source and say bias which I would understand with this source.
I would agree that the article is written with bias, but I would not say that automatically invalidates it. I think Kudlow made a lot of good points, even if the ultimate point is to convince people to not vote for Obama.
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Old 08-30-2008, 01:53 PM   #26
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Re: Obama's Speech

I feel like he is trying to dupe the country into voting for him. He is not genuine IMO. This just reminds me of Kerry promising the world but saying he won't raise taxes. To me this should show everyone that he really doesn't know what it takes to be in charge.

Here is some of his lies that a site reported. (not that I believe all of them, but they can't all be untrue)
1.) Selma Got Me Born - LIAR, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965. Source: hotair.com

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - LIAR, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - LIAR, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had Source:http://atlasshrugs2000…

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - LIAR, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades. Source:http://atlasshrugs2000…

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - LIAR, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn’t allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man. Source: According to NYTimes story of April of last year, Sarah Hussein Obama told the New York Times she is a devout Muslim.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - LIAR, your name is Arabic and ‘Baraka’ (from which Barack came) means ‘blessed’ in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - LIAR, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years,until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - LIAR, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - LIAR, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - LIAR, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn’t even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - LIAR, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - LIAR, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - LIAR, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - LIAR, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won’t Run On A National Ticket In ‘08 - LIAR, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Present Votes Are Common In Illinois - LIAR, they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - LIAR, only when caught by church groups and democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - LIAR, you didn’t write it,introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - LIAR, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - LIAR, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - LIAR, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - LIAR, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - LIAR, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - LIAR, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - LIAR, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) No One Contacted Canada About NAFTA - LIAR, the Candian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - LIAR, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.

30.) I Am Not Acting As President Yet - LIAR, after the NAFTA Memo, a dead terrorist in the FARC, in Colombia, was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.

31.) I Didn’t Run Ads In Florida - LIAR, you allowed national ads to run 8-12 times per day for two weeks - and you still lost.

32.) I Won Michigan - LIAR, no you didn’t.

33.) I won Nevada - LIAR, no you did not.

34.) I Want All Votes To Count - LIAR, you said let the delegates decide.

35.) I Want Americans To Decide - LIAR, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

36.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - LIAR, you passed 26, most of which you didn’t write yourself.

37.) My Campaign Was Extorted By A Friend - LIAR, that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has stopped saying this.

38.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - LIAR, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

39.) I Don’t Take PAC Money - LIAR, you take loads of it.

40.) I don’t Have Lobbysists - LIAR, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

41.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - LIAR, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

42.) My Campaign Never Took Over MySpace - LIAR, Tom, who started MySpace issued a warning about this advertising to MySpace clients.

43.) I Inspire People With My Words - LIAR, you inspire people with other people’s words.

44.) I Have Passed Bills In The U.S. Senate - LIAR, you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate - for Africa, which shows YOUR priorities.

45.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - LIAR, you weren’t in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time, unlike Kucinich, who seems to be out gutting you Obama. You also seem to be stepping back from your departure date - AGAIN.

46.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - LIAR, your plan leaves us all to pay the 15,000,000 who don’t have to buy it.

47.) I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail - LIAR, both companies you site as having sent you letters about this conflict have no record of any such letter ever being created or sent.

48.) I Am As Patriotic As Anyone - LIAR, you won’t wear a flag pin and you don’t put your hand over your heart during the Anthem.

49.) My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country - LIAR, your wife’s words follow lock-step in the vein of Wright and Farrahkan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.

50.) Wal-Mart Is A Company I Wouldn’t Support - LIAR, your wife has received nearly a quater of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to Wal-Mart.

51.) Treehouse Is A Small Company - LIAR, the CEO of Treehouse last year, made more than the CEO of Wal-Mart, according to public records.

52.) University Of Chicago Hospital Pay Is Fair - LIAR, your wife’s pay raise was nearly 150% her already bloated rate and the hospital is a Non-Profit Hospital, which made $100,000,000 in the last 3 years. They overcharge blacks VS whites for services, and overcharge everyone in general by 538%!

53.)I Barely Know Rezko - Only 5 Billed Hours - LIAR, you have known him for 17 years, and decided to do a real estate deal with him during a time when he was proven to be under investigation. Despite this, you divided your property and had them take off $300K before the mortgage problems started. Then Rezko’s wife buys the lot beside it that you can’t afford, saving you $625,000.

54.) My Donations Have Been Checked Thoroughly - LIAR, you only gave back Hsu ($72K) and Rezko (first $66K, then when caught lying $86K, then when caught lying again $150K and now caught lying YET AGAIN OBAMA, it’s $250k) their money when publically called on their involvement in your campaigns.

55.) My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church - LIAR, your church is so extreme, the pastor who married you, Rev. Wright, just got done blaming the US for 9/11 and named Louis Farrahkan their person of the year.

56.) I Disagree With My Church All The Time - LIAR, you still have yet to repudiate Wright, who married you and your wife, and you still donate large sums of money to assist the church in furthering its message - hatred and revenge. You donated in 2006 alone, $22,500 to the church that you so terribly disagree with. That is nearly $500 PER WEEK - that sure is disagreement, Senator Obama.

57.) I Have Clean Connections Despite Rezko - LIAR, you are not only connected to Exelon and Rezko, you are also connected to Hillary PAC supporter Mr. Hsu, AND an Iraqi Billionaire of ill repute, Nadhmi Auchi, who ripped off people in the Food For Oil, Iraqi deal. Seems Mr. Auchi may have helped Obama buy his million dollar property long before Obama had millions of dollars. Wonder what favors Mr. Auchi expects, when Obama leaves Iraq free to be taken over by special interests such as him.

58.) I never heard sermons like Rev. Wright’s, that have been in videos all day, You Tube - LIAR! 3 days later during your Mea Culpa BS speech you said “Did I hear controversial statements while I sat in that church? Yes I did.”

59.) The Passport Invasion is a conspiracy to find dirt on me! - LIAR. Your own Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor is the CEO of the company that looked into your records. PS - You had them look into yours to hide the fact you looked into Clinton’s and McCain’s more than a year before!

60.) Rev. Meeks has nothing to do with my campaigning - LIAR. Rev. Meeks appeared in ads for your Senate Campaign, donated to you, and helped raise money, then AND NOW. PS - He also seems to despise America.

61.) My wife didn’t mean America is ignorant, she was just using a phrase - LIAR. Again, Michelle’s comments perfectly sync with Wright’s, Meeks’, and Farrakhan’s, both in language, anger, and direction.

62.) I am very Anti-Terror - LIAR. [03/30/2008] One of your good pals is long time radical and terrorist William Ayers, with whom you have been seen in the last 12 months and who has helped the now jailed khalidi, Professor at Columbia who invited Ahmadinejad to the University, to raise money for Palestinian terrorism attacks against Israel. PS - Your church published a pro Hamas Manifesto - guess you weren’t there on THAT Sunday either? How lucky for you.

63.) I have the best plan to cure the Mortgage Crisis - LIAR. [03/30/2008] You and your campaign buddy Penny SubPrime Bank Collapse Prizker have had your little fingers full of subprime cash - Obama has taken $1,180,103 from the top issuers of subprime loans: Obama received $266,907 from Lehman, $5395 from GMAC, $150,850 from Credit Suisse First Boston, $11,250 from Countrywide, $9052 from Washington Mutual, $161,850 from Citigroup, $4600 from CBASS, $170,050 from Morgan Stanley, $1150 from Centex, and last but certainly NOT LEAST - Obama received $351,900 from Goldman Sachs. I am sure that cash all came from folks who knew the subprime loan they had was a dream, eh?

64) I played greater role in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion - LIAR - [03/31/2008] It was found that Obama — the day after sitting for the interview — filed an amended version of the questionnaire, which appears to contain Obama’s own handwritten notes added to one answer. Read Obama had greater role on liberal survey

65) I did NOT play the race card: - LIAR - [03/31/2008] Obama was the first to play the race card. According to Philadelphia Inquirer, Quietly, the storm over the hateful views expressed by Sen. Barack Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has blown away the most insidious myth of the Democratic primary campaign. Obama and his surrogates have charged that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has deliberately and cleverly played the race card in order to label Obama the “black” candidate.

66) I did not take money from oil companies: - LIAR - [03/31/2008]

THE FACTS: True enough, Obama does not take money from oil companies. No candidate does. It is illegal for corporations to give money to politicians. Corporations, however, do have political action committees that collect voluntary donations from employees and then donate them to candidates. Obama doesn’t take money from PACs. He also doesn’t take money from lobbyists.

But he does accept money from executives and other employees of oil companies and two of his fundraisers are oil company executives. As of Feb. 29, Obama’s presidential campaign had received nearly $214,000 from oil and gas industry employees and their families, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Clinton had received nearly $307,000 from industry workers and their families and Republican Sen. John McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee, received nearly $394,000, according to the center’s totals.

Two of Obama’s fundraisers are Robert Cavnar, the chairman and chief executive of Houston-based Mission Resources Corp., and George Kaiser, the president and CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Co. Source: Associated press via Yahoo News

67) “I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial,” Obama said at a community meeting in Nelsonville, Ohio, earlier this month. - LIAR - But yesterday, he told a different story. “Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes,” he said in his speech yesterday in Philadelphia.

68) Look at my education record in Illinois - LIAR - In reality, Obama never really championed the local councils. He supported them behind the scenes and only eventually came out publicly on their behalf. When he did weigh in, he came down on the wrong side of the debate—against protecting principals from unwarranted dismissals and in favor of keeping councils independent, no matter what. In the end, the resolution of the conflict between the two sides didn’t alleviate anyone’s concerns. Instead, it prolonged a turf battle that seems to have dragged down academic progress in the years since. Read more here What Should the Republican Party Stand For? - By Terry Jeffrey and James Pinkerton - Slate Magazine

69) “I stopped smoking. I stopped smoking. I haven’t had a cigarette since I quit - LIAR - But in his own words, here is what Obama said. Except….last night on MSNBC’s Hardball, Obama admitted that his attempt to wean himself from the vile tobacco weed had not been entirely successful. I fell off the wagon a couple times during the course of it, and then was able to get back on,” he said. “But it is a struggle like everything else.”

70) I did not campaign in Florida, (so Florida vote shouldn’t count) - LIAR -According to Boston Globe, Herald Tribune and other sites, Obama airs “ads” on Cable stations in Florida. Even with the Florida cable ads, Obama still lost. From herald tribune.com Obama’s Florida ads bust pledge

71) Obama distort (aka “Lie”) about McCain saying, “McCain (he) is willing to send our troops too another war of 100 years in Iraq”. Obama also denied what he said on the video - LIAR - The video proves him absolutely untruthful (”a liar”).

72) Obama on Guns - when Obama ran for the Illinois state senate the political group, Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI), asked him if he supported a “ban [on] the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns” and he responded “yes.” - LIAR- But in what will probably be the most improbable change, the Politico reported on Saturday that Barack Obama was making a big play for gun votes in Pennsylvania. In 1998, another questionnaire administered by IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test didn’t ask about banning all handguns, but it did find that Obama wanted to “ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.”

73) Here is what Obama now said he meant about comment he made about Small town PA - “So I said, ‘Well, you know, when you’re bitter you turn to what you can count on,’ ” he continued. “So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That’s a natural response.” - LIAR - See what Obama really meant in red. It does not take high school student to understand what Obama meant - “You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

74) “I did not recall meeting Nadhmi Auchi at any time or on any occasion” - LIAR - But a government witness said on Monday, during Antoin Rezko’s corruption trial, that he recalled seeing Sen. Barack Obama at a party that Rezko held in 2004 to honor Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born tycoon. Two other guests at the party declared the Obamas were present at the event, which took place one week before Obama won his U.S. Senate seat.

75) “I did not take money from oil companies” -LIAR- It is against the law to take money from oil companies. None of your opponents take money from oil companies either.

76) “I am the only candidate who isn’t taking a dime from Washington lobbyist” - LIAR- The record shows quite the opposite. According to USA Today, Obama’s campaign fundraising team includes 38 members of law firms that were paid $138 million last year to lobby the federal government, records show. Those lawyers, including 10 former federal lobbyists, have pledged to raise at least $3.5 million for the Illinois senator’s presidential race. Employees of their firms have given Obama’s campaign $2.26 million, a USA TODAY analysis of campaign finance data shows.


You can find that here:
Obama Blog 08 » Blog Archive » OBAMA LAUNDRY LIST OF LIES (76 lies and counting)
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:32 PM   #27
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Re: Obama's Speech

how can you trim 830billion just by checking spending? whoever has that money is going to fight like hell to keep it, and even with raising taxes, how are you going to stop the looming costs of medicare and social security in addition to whatever (possibly) expansive new services you want to add?

that's really not a very good plan.

and that's pretty damning jsarno, but mccain's list of untruths is probably pretty long too, since his views have changed so much since 2000 and he picked up pandering...
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:28 AM   #28
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Re: Obama's Speech

Jsarno, that stuff is not true. I'm not going to go line by line and I hope no one else does, but here's an example. Obama is called a liar for referring to himself as a professor as opposed to a lecturer, which your author claims he actually was. However, according to the University of Chicago: The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers have high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. (FactCheck.org: Was Barack Obama really a constitutional law professor?)

Straight from the horse's mouth, but you are dealing with people who don't check facts that might get in the way of their arguments.

I just want to say that this is an important election between two distinct candidates with differing views for America, and it's a shame to see it once again digressing to the level of character assassination, and that goes for people on both sides (in fact, the previous accusation against Obama was first advanced by the Clinton camp). Instead of debating the issues we have to argue over whether or not Obama is secretly a Muslim. Still, doesn't say much for our people that these types of exaggerations and fabrications continue to be so successful.
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:21 AM   #29
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Re: Obama's Speech

So we're taking "facts" from an outright anti-Obama blog. That's brilliant.
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Old 08-31-2008, 01:26 PM   #30
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Re: Obama's Speech

Behold, McCain's Issue Oriented Flippidy Flipflop Full of Filip Flops List™.
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