Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


$700 B Bailout

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2008, 12:58 AM   #46
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,107
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
It is certainly understandable why people would get upset with that story. It's really tragic that some are making millions while others are losing their jobs, watching the value of their pensions plummet, and losing their homes.

But, keep in mind that WaMu's new CEO had nothing to do with the bank's failure. Moreover, "golden parachutes" aren't as crazy as they sound. Suppose CEO X has a proven track record of turning around struggling businesses, makes $5,000,000 per year at his current job, and has great job security. He's probably a very hot commodity and will not leave his job unless he's paid handsomely and is given some job security (i.e., guaranteed money). That guaranteed money is typically payable if his employment is terminated for no fault of his own and is forfeited for certain bad conduct (e.g., fraud). It's a form of job security and isn't much different from an NFL signing bonus, except it's paid at the end of the employment instead of at the beginning.

Basically, it does suck, but it makes sense.
I understand. I was just saying that if someone were to just pick up the paper (or I guess log onto the Internet) today and see this-and only this-it would enrage them.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 09-30-2008, 01:51 AM   #47
Playmaker
 
djnemo65's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MA
Age: 34
Posts: 2,836
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
It not at hard to figure out. Too many people had loans which they should not have ever had and they could not afford them. When the housing market was doing so great people with mortgage issues or payments too high could just sell their home at a profit and walk away. Now when the sh&* hits the fan they cannot sell their home in a soft market and the trouble begins. Back before the mid 90's about the only way people lost their homes was do to a loss of a job. Now days people are just loosing their homes and still have the same income as they did when they purchased them. Now its going to get much tougher to buy a home and hopefully we do not repeat this again.
Sorry First, you are behind on this. What you are describing is the collapse of the US housing market, which is only the first part of the story. The bailout does not purport to address this, which is a major reason why the public is not supporting it. How we went from a correction in an overvalued US housing market to the potential collapse of the global economy is a bit more complicated than you are allowing.
djnemo65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 02:40 PM   #48
The Starter
 
redsk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,351
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheisig View Post
Exactly.

The pattern for decades has been you may a substantial down payment on a house (20% at least). Generations before us you waited to buy a house and you put a big chunk down. All of a sudden people get greedy, want more house than they can afford, and we end up with shit like 5/1 ARMs and interest-only mortgages. People somehow feel entitled to the house of their dreams at the age of 25 and figure, "Screw down payments, screw paying the principle and all that, this is the NEW generation! We're living the American dream!"

If people weren't so damned greedy and impatient (the lenders and the borrowers) we wouldn't be in this mess.

1) Don't buy more house than you can afford.
2) That means that you can afford the house now AND 5 years from now.
I understand what you're saying but what's wrong w/ a 5/1 Arm?

I think what you mean is Option Interest Only ARMs. Big difference.
redsk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 02:51 PM   #49
The Starter
 
redsk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,351
Re: $700 B Bailout

Pelosi should be ashamed at throwing POLITICS into whether this bill should be passed or not. She was quoted in her speech. Not the right time or place. Regardless, if you think it should or shouldn't be passed let's talk about why and why not rather than who's fault it is.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: For too long this government, for eight years has followed a right wing ideology of anything goes, no supervision, no discipline, no regulation.
redsk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 04:31 PM   #50
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsk1 View Post
Pelosi should be ashamed at throwing POLITICS into whether this bill should be passed or not. She was quoted in her speech. Not the right time or place. Regardless, if you think it should or shouldn't be passed let's talk about why and why not rather than who's fault it is.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: For too long this government, for eight years has followed a right wing ideology of anything goes, no supervision, no discipline, no regulation.
I agree that Pelosi's comments were ill-timed. However, the Republicans who supposedly switched their votes should be even more ashamed. Essentially, they concluded the package was in the best interests of the economy and our country, but they decided to say "f' the best interests of our country," I want to get back at Pelosi.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 05:08 PM   #51
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheisig View Post
Exactly.

The pattern for decades has been you may a substantial down payment on a house (20% at least). Generations before us you waited to buy a house and you put a big chunk down. All of a sudden people get greedy, want more house than they can afford, and we end up with shit like 5/1 ARMs and interest-only mortgages. People somehow feel entitled to the house of their dreams at the age of 25 and figure, "Screw down payments, screw paying the principle and all that, this is the NEW generation! We're living the American dream!"

If people weren't so damned greedy and impatient (the lenders and the borrowers) we wouldn't be in this mess.

1) Don't buy more house than you can afford.
2) That means that you can afford the house now AND 5 years from now.
Sorry, it's not the "people" that created these loans and sold them to the buyers telling them "I'll get you into a house no matter what". You want to blame someone?.. then you blame the banks and loan processors. They should go to jail for giving people those options and letting them believe they could afford it. Most home buyers are clueless when it comes to the loan process. They depend solely on their real-estate agent and loan processor for advice. They took the "good faith" out of the estimate and just made it bullshit.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 05:46 PM   #52
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,107
Re: $700 B Bailout

People who bit off more than they can chew essentially shouldn't simply completely be absolved of blame here.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 06:00 PM   #53
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: $700 B Bailout

Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 07:05 PM   #54
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,346
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?
I didn't read every last document to the letter, but I reviewed the settlement documents and loan repayment schedule and fees in detail on every home transaction I've done. I've never gone for an ARM, only 30 year fixed rate mortgages.

If you're making a six figure financial decision it's definitely your responsibility to understand what's going on or get an independent attorney to review and explain the documents to you.

This financial crisis is about much, much more than the 5% or so of mortgages that are defaulting. There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle and from Wall Street to Main St. We all share in some of the blame here. It's just an egregious shame that Congress can't get a package together to stem the crisis.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 08:17 PM   #55
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?
I did. No one should ever expect that people who are in the business of making money off of you (e.g., lenders) are also looking out for your best interests. To absolve people of all blame for signing documents that they did not read doesn't seem right. The lenders deserve some blame for this crisis, but so do the borrowers.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 09:56 PM   #56
Playmaker
 
djnemo65's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MA
Age: 34
Posts: 2,836
Re: $700 B Bailout

By law in most states an independent lawyer is required to be present during the closing process. It is their job to make sure the borrower understands the terms of the loan, as well as to alert them if they feel the borrower is being swindled in any way. This is not true in all states but in most. So, while it's easy to blame the lenders for this mess, the public was eager to buy in. They wanted big screens and new cars; as their homes swelled in value they viewed that as free money to finance a lifestyle they couldn't otherwise afford. This was fine as long as houses were appreciating at 20 percent per year, and many wanted to believe it would go on forever, but it didn't. While it's politically expedient to absolve the public of all blame in this, the fact is that people largely did understand the terms of their loans. They wanted the cash. They gambled on the US housing market expanding forever and were wrong. So did Wall Street, and that is why we are where we are.
djnemo65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 10:05 PM   #57
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,346
Re: $700 B Bailout

Since YouTube videos seem to be the thing to do I thought this was appropriate. Seems like there is some serious blame lying a the feet of the Dems in this video. At 8:15, President Clinton weighs in also.



I do NOT agree with the accusation in the video that "Frank Raines is Obama's economic advisor". I haven't researched any other claims the video makes, but it looks pretty damning for the Dems in that committee.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 01:05 AM   #58
MVP
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 36
Posts: 10,044
Re: $700 B Bailout

The basis for the current credit crunch this country is facing comes directly from our government's deisre to get more people owning houses. Efforts to create a market of "affordable housing" initially forced banks via legislation and litigation to loosen decades of conventional lending practices based on financial sense and empircal evidence. Basically the gov't forced lenders to create programs that allowed people who were broke to buy houses. In a lot a ways this was a good gesture and even smart. Hell they even implemented it somewhat properly initially essentially guaranteeing the loans via Fannie and Freddie. The problem is then they got politcally greedy and really started pushing to open this "affordable housing" market up, despite what smart people knew were probable long term issues. They let Freddie and Fannie become bastions of bad loans and they couldn't support them and they failed. This has sucked the value out of the credit market because all these loans, bundled as securities and bonds so they could be sold(because they were shit and banks knew it) became "valueless" because the net(freddie and fannie) was gone. On top of that the "real value", the actual values of the homes within these loans, aren't considered within the market as part of the asset value of the securities BY LAW. So loans worth 30B in actual property are only worth 10B on paper. Market seizure time baby!

The video Slinggin posts actully has a good timeline of what has gone on from a political standpoint if you just try and ignore the rhetoric.

Make no mistake, the fault on this from a purely politcal standpoint lays at the feet of the democrats and their blind mission to get poor people to buy houses but in all honesty the Repubs had plenty of opportunity to fix this in the 15 years and didn't do it. It would have been politically unpopular to basically end the free ride and none of them had the cajones to what was right. They ignored it out of self preservation while dems were too dumb to even realize what was happening.

What is pissing me off right now though is this bullshit about "8 years of failed economic policies". This has nothing to do with deregulation at all or any of Bush's economics. This crap was going on before Bush and regulators told everyone and everyone basically couldn't figure out a way it helped them politically so they did nothing.

F 'em all. Blame Bush for a lot of crap but this doesn't even remotely have anything do with him from a causation standpoint.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 10:53 AM   #59
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?
I did. I got it right at the beginning of the bubble at a 30yr fixed 5.5% rate. I locked it and stayed there. I never refinanced and took money out when my equity started to go through the ceiling. The average American is not financially savvy enough to know the loans the banks are selling were high risk.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #60
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: $700 B Bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Since YouTube videos seem to be the thing to do I thought this was appropriate. Seems like there is some serious blame lying a the feet of the Dems in this video. At 8:15, President Clinton weighs in also.

YouTube - Democrats Defend Fannie/Freddie from Regulation - 2004 Video


I do NOT agree with the accusation in the video that "Frank Raines is Obama's economic advisor". I haven't researched any other claims the video makes, but it looks pretty damning for the Dems in that committee.

Man, those people need a beat down. The Dems look like they were bought and paid for by Fannie and Freddie. Waters seems like Raines mistress.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.53164 seconds with 10 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25