The Official Presidential Debate Thread (Round 3)

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I agree. However, I think it would be more entertaining to just have it all in one place.

You do have a point.

[mredskins]

What do you think of this scenario?

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beers and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.'

Beers for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount they paid before, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pa y $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for beers, so the other nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important?.. Without the tenth man, the rest didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

[saden1]

LOL...very Ayn Rand'ish at the end there. What's next? If the wealthy guy doesn't show up the next time will the poor guys strike? Call for a boycott of the wealthy guy's business?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by mredskins

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

Great post. The wealth is already "spread around" pretty good.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Anyone else notice how McCain never defends Obama's explanation of his health plan? Does taxing your health care benefits count as a tax hike? Hell, even if you use McCain's own numbers (false numbers btw) you're still in the hook for another 3.5K if your employer decides to dump your ass (8.5K average health cost minus 5K credit). And why wouldn't your employer dump you?

What I really don't get is taxing health care benefits and then giving the money back to us. The math is just abysmal and the numbers just don't add up. Just thinking about it boggles my mind. If anyone has a good grasp on his plan feel free to explain.

I got nothing. McCain's plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it's the lesser of two evils vs. Obama's plan.

P.S. I'll get to your other post later, my kid is ballin on Thursday nights. LOL.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I vote you guys start a candidate joke thread where you can post all your random, non-relevant clips and pics. Seeing them continually pop up in every serious political thread is a bit annoying.

Serious political threads don't really happen here anymore. I can't wait for this election to be over and maybe we can stop talking about politics on this board, because it's all pretty pointless. There really aren't any true discussions.

I had wanted to ask those that think McCain is the spawn of Satan if they think Obama will make a good President. I know they think McCain is an evil idiot who will destroy the country, but I'm curious if they truly believe Obama has what it takes to be successful. Are they for Obama, or just against McCain. But I don't really care anymore.

Just vote on the 4th.

[DynamiteRave]

Nothing wrong with mixing some humor in with politics.

There's no point in having a coronary over politics anyway especially not on this board, it's something you can't control. Unless someone here is a secret lobbyist/senator/governor/president/McCain/Obama

If you're looking for serious politics, head to a politics board. If you're looking for some back and forth banter between good friends with some ribbing mixed in, WP is a great board. Aren't we supposed to be based about Skins/Sports anyway?

[Hog1]

D-Rave is correct.
No point in getting to excited as there is nobody currently running worthy of the office. Very sad indeed, this is the best we can do...........

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Nothing wrong with mixing some humor in with politics.

There's no point in having a coronary over politics anyway especially not on this board, it's something you can't control. Unless someone here is a secret lobbyist/senator/governor/president/McCain/Obama

If you're looking for serious politics, head to a politics board. If you're looking for some back and forth banter between good friends with some ribbing mixed in, WP is a great board. Aren't we supposed to be based about Skins/Sports anyway?

Well it's heavily one sided humor. And I mean I don't even care about that really. And I know this is not the place to go for serious politics, especially when some of those here who say the funniest things are the ones trying to be serious.

And of course I think the board is great. All I'm saying is that this was all exciting stuff to discuss early on but as the months have dragged on it's mostly crap now. It's sort of like the never ending thread, but across many threads now.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

D-Rave is correct.
No point in getting to excited as there is nobody currently running worthy of the office. Very sad indeed, this is the best we can do...........

Hog, besides the two candidates that are currently running, who do you feel is worthy of the office?

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Serious political threads don't really happen here anymore. I can't wait for this election to be over and maybe we can stop talking about politics on this board, because it's all pretty pointless. There really aren't any true discussions.

I had wanted to ask those that think McCain is the spawn of Satan if they think Obama will make a good President. I know they think McCain is an evil idiot who will destroy the country, but I'm curious if they truly believe Obama has what it takes to be successful. Are they for Obama, or just against McCain. But I don't really care anymore.

Just vote on the 4th.

Ain't that the truth. I wish we'd go back to not discussing politics and religion like before. The parking lot was a much happier place then.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Hog, besides the two candidates that are currently running, who do you feel is worthy of the office?

Not easy for me to answer. IMO
Perhaps someone that would tend to rally more of the country than divide it. Someone who offers real answers....that actually work, not just lip service to gather in the masses.
The Fed has become a juggernaut feeding mostly those sworn to serve it, and punishing mostly those meant to benefit from it.
Those that crafted this gov't would no longer recognize it. The times have naturally changed, but the essence and intention of this..........democracy have not, or rather should not. It's broken, and it needs to be repaired. We are ridiculouly entrenched in things like political correctness, and have lost our ability to tell the truth. As a result, we can no longer do things that make sense for fear of making somebody mad. But Tooo much wealth is in the balance and it may be untenable after all.
Who can fix it?
Someone unafraid to state what the problems are. We're broke, Immigration is killing us. The welfare, and other assistance programs are un-workable, rewarding many that do not need it and building walls against those that do. We cannot begin more programs that do not work and serve only to pirate more hard earned tax money without reform and accountability of what already exists.
Who can fix it? Reagan? JFK?
In the early going, I thought Fred Thompson, or possibly Rudy might have something to say. Obviously, it was not enough. On the other side of the line, John Edwards literally F... himself out of things.........
Who? Not really sure!
Most importantly, talk is cheap........show me
Important safety tip: caution, diatribe in progress

[Duffman003]

Originally Posted by mredskins

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for beers, so the other nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important?.. Without the tenth man, the rest didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

I get what you are saying, but people are doing everything they can to pay the least amount in taxes anyway. Businesses will base their company overseas even if they do pay a reasonable amount in taxes here, but they will still be able to pay less overseas. Businesses are formed to make as much money as possible, even if they affects their home country negatively.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What was this all about?

I literally ROFLMAO'd for about 23 minutes! Sweet jesus that's one of the funniest pictures I have ever seen in my 33 years of existence!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Not easy for me to answer. IMO
Perhaps someone that would tend to rally more of the country than divide it. Someone who offers real answers....that actually work, not just lip service to gather in the masses.
The Fed has become a juggernaut feeding mostly those sworn to serve it, and punishing mostly those meant to benefit from it.
Those that crafted this gov't would no longer recognize it. The times have naturally changed, but the essence and intention of this..........democracy have not, or rather should not. It's broken, and it needs to be repaired. We are ridiculouly entrenched in things like political correctness, and have lost our ability to tell the truth. As a result, we can no longer do things that make sense for fear of making somebody mad. But Tooo much wealth is in the balance and it may be untenable after all.
Who can fix it?
Someone unafraid to state what the problems are. We're broke, Immigration is killing us. The welfare, and other assistance programs are un-workable, rewarding many that do not need it and building walls against those that do. We cannot begin more programs that do not work and serve only to pirate more hard earned tax money without reform and accountability of what already exists.
Who can fix it? Reagan? JFK?
In the early going, I thought Fred Thompson, or possibly Rudy might have something to say. Obviously, it was not enough. On the other side of the line, John Edwards literally F... himself out of things.........
Who? Not really sure!
Most importantly, talk is cheap........show me
Important safety tip: caution, diatribe in progress

I think your last couple of lines summed up best. Show me. You don't know, until you know. Even if we look back into history, many of the Presidents that people perceive to be great once they left office, gave many Americans pause while they were actually running for office. I've talked to a few old timers who were around when JFK was running, and they weren't too impressed with him at the time. Some still aren't. You talk to almost any Republican today, and Ronald Reagan's name is probably in the top five when you ask them to name five great Presidents the GOP have produced over time. But when he ran for President, his opponents tried to paint him as an empty Hollywood suit.

I think we had a good pool of candidates to choose from on both sides of the aisle this year. I really do. If I were to change hats for a second and support, say, a Republican candidate. I probably would have chosen someone like Mike Huckabee. Not that I agree with his policies so much, but he seems tempered, comes across as sensible, and has a great sense of humor. And I get the gut feeling the dude is honest. I actually think he wouldn't do a horrible job running the country.

Running for President, more than anything else, proves ones fitness for the office once they get there. On many levels. For instance, a few weeks ago, I watched Fred Thompson give a very energetic speech during the RNC. I mean this guy was tearing Obama and the Dems a new you know what during his speech. Freddy had the crowd climbing up the walls. But when he was running for office, he came across lack luster often times and seemed to lack ideas. And I thought to myself, it's not that Thompson, if he were in office, wouldn't be a good President. It's just that the grind of campaigning day in and day out, separates the men from the boys. It's one thing to give a speech and light up a crowd and another thing to do it daily, enduring the day to day rigors of running for President. Mike Huckabee now has his own talk show on Fox. Which is great. And Rudy Giuliani now appears on the talk show circuit, almost, on a daily basis.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that it's not that we lack good leaders with bold ideas that can bring about change, it's just that only a handful actually punch through with their message…and probably just as important now a days, their money.