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Liberal = Anti-American?

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Old 10-20-2008, 04:33 PM   #16
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

I'm open to other ideas, I'm just not open to what I believe to be bad ideas. I don't have a problem with the concept of privatizing SS if it were made private as the program was being created. I do have a problem with the practicality of it at this point. The way it currently works is such that the younger generation pays into it so that the older generation can collect. What if we privatized SS tomorrow? What does that all mean? Can we implement the Galviston plan across the country? What will happen to my friends mom who is permanently disabled?

SS privatization crowd is all talk, no bark. Certainly no substance, just plain hate of "Socialist Security."

I'm not extreme, I'm just extremely opinionated and everything I say is reasoned and thought out though some might not like my methods or rational.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:39 PM   #17
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I'm open to other ideas, I'm just not open to what I believe to be bad ideas. I don't have a problem with the concept of privatizing SS if it were made private as the program was being created. I do have a problem with the practicality of it at this point. The way it currently works is such that the younger generation pays into it so that the older generation can collect. What if we privatized SS tomorrow? What does that all mean? Can we implement the Galviston plan across the country? What will happen to my friends mom who is permanently disabled?

SS privatization crowd is all talk, no bark. Certainly no substance, just plain hate of "Socialist Security."

I'm not extreme, I'm just extremely opinionated and everything I say is reasoned and thought out though some might not like my methods or rational.
Well its a broken system that is going broke. You want to keep throwing money into a broken system and I wnat the broken system to be done away with at some point. It cannot happen over night but we could start to move in another direction. I have shown you the substance in the other thread and your right about "Socialist False Security".
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:52 PM   #18
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

What have you shown me? Privatizing SS is not akin to fixing SS. What I am saying Privatizing SS doesn't answer the important questions and leaves many people out in the cold. It's a solution without showing work. If you are talking about fixing a broken SS system then I'm all ears.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:08 PM   #19
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
What have you shown me? Privatizing SS is not akin to fixing SS. What I am saying Privatizing SS doesn't answer the important questions and leaves many people out in the cold. It's a solution without showing work. If you are talking about fixing a broken SS system then I'm all ears.
My point was not to provide a solution to SS but to make the point that we allready have enough broken federal programs and adding Health care to that list is not a very good idea. Plus it will drive cost up.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:59 AM   #20
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I'm open to other ideas, I'm just not open to what I believe to be bad ideas. I don't have a problem with the concept of privatizing SS if it were made private as the program was being created. I do have a problem with the practicality of it at this point. The way it currently works is such that the younger generation pays into it so that the older generation can collect. What if we privatized SS tomorrow? What does that all mean? Can we implement the Galviston plan across the country? What will happen to my friends mom who is permanently disabled?

SS privatization crowd is all talk, no bark. Certainly no substance, just plain hate of "Socialist Security."

I'm not extreme, I'm just extremely opinionated and everything I say is reasoned and thought out though some might not like my methods or rational.
mecixo chile and australia (among others) managed to do it. you do like galveston did... let people opt out, and then they can put their SS money in a private account that guarantees 4-6% return per year (sometimes they make more than the guarantee). Those accounts are divided between multiple regulated regional banks and credit unions (which basically look at it like long term CDs) - that way there's no chance of one bank failure bankrupting a retirement class (and these things can be FDIC insured).

so that takes care of everyone opting out going forward. you leave those nearing retirement on the old system and gradually reduce america's tax burden as the old guys retire (and the opt out rate will be over 90%).

probelm solved - less taxes, no one gets forced out on the street, and the younger guys get actually interest on their very safe accounts, beating inflation and making it economically feasible to keep the idea of guaranteed retirement without bankrupting the nation.

SS and medicare are EASY problems - galveston and japan already solved them 30 years ago!!. why reinvent the wheel?
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:10 AM   #21
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

and medicare is just giving free screening and prevention (you can even make it mandatory - ie, get your yearly mammogram or the out pocket cost, should you get breast cancer, will double), and making people pay 5-20% based on procedure or service to put cost control on the end user, not regulators... wider use of generics, stopping fraud (like those "free" scooters that are part of a business who's only money comes from ripping off medicare as much as possible for revenue).

you can also do what the military does - more doctors = cheaper health care, so... signing bonuses. ie, based upon national need, academic standing, and individual financial need, applicants can enter med school with a locked bonus, say 15k$. if they graduate and start work at a hospital, that 15k$ pays off student loans.

that hits health care costs and education at once... someone gets an easier ride to a high paying job, and in turn, lowers the total tax burden by slightly reducing demand on health care workers.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:24 AM   #22
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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mecixo chile and australia (among others) managed to do it. you do like galveston did... let people opt out, and then they can put their SS money in a private account that guarantees 4-6% return per year (sometimes they make more than the guarantee). Those accounts are divided between multiple regulated regional banks and credit unions (which basically look at it like long term CDs) - that way there's no chance of one bank failure bankrupting a retirement class (and these things can be FDIC insured).

so that takes care of everyone opting out going forward. you leave those nearing retirement on the old system and gradually reduce america's tax burden as the old guys retire (and the opt out rate will be over 90%).

probelm solved - less taxes, no one gets forced out on the street, and the younger guys get actually interest on their very safe accounts, beating inflation and making it economically feasible to keep the idea of guaranteed retirement without bankrupting the nation.

SS and medicare are EASY problems - galveston and japan already solved them 30 years ago!!. why reinvent the wheel?

I am missing something here...if I am 63 and two years away from retirement can I opt-out and what does opting-out mean? What if I am 50 years old? What exactly are my choices? What will happen to the money I contributed in the past ~30 years? I mean that money is long gone and all the spiffy 20-30 year olds are putting their money in private accounts. Are we perhaps going to need to bail out people of a certain age?
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:37 AM   #23
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I am missing something here...if I am 63 and two years away from retirement can I opt-out and what does opting-out mean? What if I am 50 years old? What exactly are my choices? What will happen to the money I contributed in the past ~30 years? I mean that money is long gone and all the spiffy 20-30 year olds are putting their money in private accounts. Are we perhaps going to need to bail out people of a certain age?
Well privatising SS would have to come in phases. You have older people who have contributed into the system so they would receive their benifits they are due. People who are younger and have contributed to SS would have those accounts frozen and then could also have their private accounts. When they retire they would collect from SS (at the rate they paid up to) and could also collect from what they have put into their private accounts. The whole problem is that the money put into SS has been taken out to pay for other stuff not related to SS. If any person selling private funds did anything like this they would be in jail. So the problem is that the funds that should be in SS are no longer there and thats the reason for the problems in SS to start with. What we are doing now is bailing out SS by using current payments to SS to pay current obligations. This is just totaly backward in any type of financial plaining. It should be that my current payments into SS would be collecting interest and would support me when I retire thus making the programe self supporting to say. The problems in SS is a great example of what happens when our politicians get their hands on our money and its been going on way to long by both parties.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:35 AM   #24
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

Saden no offense, but you are extreme in that you just start random threads for no apparent reason and just post strings of pointless youtube videos. That is extreme IMO because it is unneeded, and takes away from the quality of your other posts.

Plus you don't always justify yourself(you did in this thread) so you sound as bad, if not worst, than your conservative counterparts. I've already called out other conservative people, but as SS said your posts use to be some of the best on this site. Now it's just the same old one liners and youtube clips.

I am not saying I am worthy contributor to this site, but you were.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:05 PM   #25
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Saden no offense, but you are extreme in that you just start random threads for no apparent reason and just post strings of pointless youtube videos. That is extreme IMO because it is unneeded, and takes away from the quality of your other posts.

Plus you don't always justify yourself(you did in this thread) so you sound as bad, if not worst, than your conservative counterparts. I've already called out other conservative people, but as SS said your posts use to be some of the best on this site. Now it's just the same old one liners and youtube clips.

I am not saying I am worthy contributor to this site, but you were.
How come you're just bringing this about now, as having posted earlier in the the thread and said nothing about this, but actually responded to his initial post?
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:08 PM   #26
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
Saden no offense, but you are extreme in that you just start random threads for no apparent reason and just post strings of pointless youtube videos. That is extreme IMO because it is unneeded, and takes away from the quality of your other posts.

Plus you don't always justify yourself(you did in this thread) so you sound as bad, if not worst, than your conservative counterparts. I've already called out other conservative people, but as SS said your posts use to be some of the best on this site. Now it's just the same old one liners and youtube clips.

I am not saying I am worthy contributor to this site, but you were.
How come you're just bringing this about now, as having posted earlier in the the thread and said nothing about this, but actually responded to his initial post in your reply to SS33?

Not saying I don't agree with you, I just find it somewhat... Backwards. :confused-
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:13 PM   #27
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

I just wish I knew how to post YouTube clips.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:14 PM   #28
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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We have plenty of that on both sides here. Let's not act like saden is the only one guilty of that.
I think there needs to be a "Saden is too Extreme" thread started where people can just bitch and get over it.

It seems like every political thread where the guy makes a post, someone has to say he's too extreme. Everyone is extreme and set in their ways when it comes to politics (except Independents )

Although he could probably make himself more credible by using less youtube clips, it kinda makes me feel a bit uncomfortable to read threads where people are just thrashing the guy (or anyone for that matter).
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:52 PM   #29
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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I just wish I knew how to post YouTube clips.
Just because I want a youtube fight to go down.


http://www.thewarpath.net/playbook/1...be-videos.html (How to Embed YouTube Videos)
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:15 PM   #30
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Re: Liberal = Anti-American?

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I think there needs to be a "Saden is too Extreme" thread started where people can just bitch and get over it.

It seems like every political thread where the guy makes a post, someone has to say he's too extreme. Everyone is extreme and set in their ways when it comes to politics (except Independents )

Although he could probably make himself more credible by using less youtube clips, it kinda makes me feel a bit uncomfortable to read threads where people are just thrashing the guy (or anyone for that matter).
Most people who claim to be independent just wait around to see what the flavor of the month is and goes with that. LOL I would not call what people have said about Saden as thrashing the guy.
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