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obama is taking my $

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Old 01-25-2009, 10:10 AM   #16
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Re: obama is taking my $

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FRPLG and Schneed10, from you're comments I have to assume you both are under the mistaken impression US funding to help reduce population explosion somehow involves forced contraceptive, abortion, etc. From all my research, conversations w/ those who spend time working on these issues in the Peace Corp or other organizations, and a good deal of time spent in the published works of J. Sachs and other economists concentrating on these types of issues, I've never heard of forced contraceptive or abortion wrt US funded programs. To be sure, there are horrific atrocities occurring in these dark corners of the world and mostly related to extreme population explosion over the last several decades. The preponderance of research and indeed the historical record shows women prefer to have the option/availability of these services and do in fact choose to have fewer children in the long run. Again, they're choice, not something forced on them.

... sitting in a country that basically has no overcrowding issues, where resources are not strained to their limits and where we have all the freedoms in the world... and to put our plump hands over our ears and ignore what is going on in the utterly impoverished regions of Africa and the Middle-East... horrifically alarming on a moral level. Or rather it's just deeply, deeply ignorant.
No my comments were based solely on yours which Schneed pointed out inferred that one of Bush's failings as a President was a lack of support in reducing populations in terrorists base countries by whatever means. Since the basis of this thread it seems pretty reasonable to me that you were supporting paying for abortions. Are you saying you believe that the foundation of terrorism is rooted in overcrowding?
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:14 AM   #17
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Re: obama is taking my $

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nice touch, the God Bless America ending
I was watching George Carlin last night. Part of his banter was "God Bless America"... most all politicians use this in closing.

He said. "What is this? A demand? A statement?..." and went on to say, "...if God loves all of us equally, why should he "bless America" more so than any other country, and that, in the end, it's an empty statement...


/end derail
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:29 PM   #18
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Re: obama is taking my $

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No my comments were based solely on yours which Schneed pointed out inferred that one of Bush's failings as a President was a lack of support in reducing populations in terrorists base countries by whatever means. Since the basis of this thread it seems pretty reasonable to me that you were supporting paying for abortions. Are you saying you believe that the foundation of terrorism is rooted in overcrowding?
I'm not comfortable w/ funding abortions because ultimately i'm pro-life. What i recognize is decades of total negligence (by the US and world community) and inherent cultural norms in these troubled regions have created a population explosion almost impossible for us to imagine. Just like I cannot be comfortable w/ China's formula for pop control, I do recognize the Chinese gov knew it had to do something.

... Roots of terrorism aren't that simple is my guess. I did read a study once claiming if you look at where terrorists come from there's an extremely high correlation w/ massive US military installations. It's not a strong thesis because obviously we've got huge installations in S. Korea and elsewhere but don't see them recruit terrorists. Obviously there's more to the equation (although I was surprised to find out how much Koreans and Japanese dislike our military presence in their countries). The bigger picture w/ overcrowding is it sets the stage for strife, violent conflict, etc. Sachs does a good job of relating the professional journal research (boring) to real world, and basically what we find is that the common denominator in regions across the world for ongoing violent conflict is a very high TFR (total fertility rate) - not religious differences, political disagreements, etc.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:18 PM   #19
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Re: obama is taking my $

I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:10 PM   #20
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Re: obama is taking my $

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I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.
I stay far away from political discussion on this website, but that's hilarious!
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:27 PM   #21
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Re: obama is taking my $

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Here is your hope and change folks! Get ready to open your wallets!
obama is the welfare president it goes in cycles thats why we all need to register as a independant to give us that 3rd alternative.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:30 PM   #22
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Re: obama is taking my $

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I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.
that is funny but also sad at the same time
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:58 PM   #23
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Re: obama is taking my $

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I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.
Unfortunately we have to rationalize things, we are incapable of going with our gut. The illness we suffer from is terrible, tragic really.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:39 PM   #24
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Re: obama is taking my $

spend the money now. we wouldnt want to leave any behind for the kids.trillions in debt and still spending like a drunken soccer mom
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:43 PM   #25
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Re: obama is taking my $

What bothers me most about this is that these are what Obama felt he must do with in the first days to appease his political wing:
Close Gitmo
Allow funding of international groups that support abortions (petty note-couldn't we get american funds straightened out before we worry whether we are giving out enough to the international community?)
Halt all of Bush's last minute regulations
Freeze pay of White House staff making over 100K (except his as he is not allowed - I wonder if he offered to keep getting a Senator's salary? [i know petty again])

Again I want Obama to succeed, but I really don't see how this holds to his quote to put petty political stuff aside for the good of the country.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:10 PM   #26
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Re: obama is taking my $

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Unfortunately we have to rationalize things, we are incapable of going with our gut. The illness we suffer from is terrible, tragic really.
Like Michael Savage says, "liberalism is a mental disorder." But, you are are still a good Redskins fan.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:32 PM   #27
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Re: obama is taking my $

I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, Hyde-Weldon clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:13 PM   #28
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Re: obama is taking my $

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, Hyde-Weldon clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.
Thank you for this. The author of this thread, most likely in ignorance, wrote a title suggesting this issue to be something that is not. The following discussion has been predictably inane. So thanks for setting the record straight.

Anyway 12th, I have to tell you, I really think this age of political divisiveness is coming to an end. You know the playbook, the one where you find divisive, largely symbolic issues to exploit Ė which have little to do with peopleís actual lives Ė and use them to get the folks all fired up. It's that FOX News thing where you find some radical 60's professor or woman in a coma and have the spewing pundits wax vitriolic until everyone is worked up into a tizzy and foaming at the mouth.

When the economy was fundamentally sound and the nation was at peace perhaps we had the luxury of engaging in such nonsense. But at this stage in the game, I just donít think itís going to work anymore. People have too much on their mind (my conservative friends at The Warpath not withstanding of course, some of whom seem genuinely uninterested in letting an opportunity for outrage go to waste).
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:39 PM   #29
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Re: obama is taking my $

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I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, Hyde-Weldon clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.
Good points sir. The whole topic of foreign aid is actually pretty interesting. When polled Americans typically say we already give enough or too much in the form of aid... turns out it's because most believe we already set aside something like 10% or more of the fed budget for aid. When pollsters ask the question differently, informing folks first that less than 1% is budgeted, most answer we should give more than we do.
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:52 PM   #30
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Re: obama is taking my $

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Good points sir. The whole topic of foreign aid is actually pretty interesting. When polled Americans typically say we already give enough or too much in the form of aid... turns out it's because most believe we already set aside something like 10% or more of the fed budget for aid. When pollsters ask the question differently, informing folks first that less than 1% is budgeted, most answer we should give more than we do.
Yeah, that's the thing. We don't spend that much, in fact very little, in relative terms, on foreign aid. It's just that given the current economic crisis and the mood of the country, the notion that we're sending money anywhere (other than our own back yard) just rubs people the wrong way, and understandably so.
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