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Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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Old 03-13-2009, 12:57 PM   #46
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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[Reagan] had rock-star celebrity status during his campaign. It was unprecedented, and there's no denying it. Sure every elected president has been popular, but [Reagan] took it to a whole new level, and I'm sure it played a big part in his victory. During his campaign he represented the antithesis of the [Carter] Administration, of which the entire [country] had tired.

IMO he was elected because of his masterful campaign and celebrity status more so than his politics and principles. Since he went from campaigner in cheif to Commander in Cheif, his approval numbers have dipped quite a bit.
Never mind that he promised to decreases taxes, increase military spending. He was the most popular president ever! Popularity wins elections!
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:09 PM   #47
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Never mind that he promised to decreases taxes, increase military spending. He was the most popular president ever! Popularity wins elections!
I never said he won ONLY because of popularity/celebrity. I said it was MORE popularity/celebrity than politics and principles.

I was 2 years old when Reagan was elected, so I only know what I've read about his campaign.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #48
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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Yea, you have backed off because its now the guy you voted for in office.
Ok.

Whatever.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:02 PM   #49
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

There is an extent to which politics makes everyone a hypocrite. It's hypocritical for Conservatives to talk about "Bush Derangement Syndrome" and then compare Obama to Stalin. It is equally hypocritical for Democrats to spend eight years claiming that "dissent is patriotic" and then tell everyone to shut up and get in line two seconds after their guy wins.

This doesn't really bother me because I like arguing about politics. I overlook it. I am able to overlook it because politics is, in the grand scheme of things, about as important as the NFL. It is not a religion for me. I think the people who find political give and take distasteful are the people who look to politics for spiritual fulfillment - words like "hope" and "meaning" get tossed around. I think anybody that looks to politics to bring hope and meaning to their lives is begging to be disappinted.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:26 PM   #50
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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Originally Posted by 70Chip View Post
There is an extent to which politics makes everyone a hypocrite. It's hypocritical for Conservatives to talk about "Bush Derangement Syndrome" and then compare Obama to Stalin. It is equally hypocritical for Democrats to spend eight years claiming that "dissent is patriotic" and then tell everyone to shut up and get in line two seconds after their guy wins.

This doesn't really bother me because I like arguing about politics. I overlook it. I am able to overlook it because politics is, in the grand scheme of things, about as important as the NFL. It is not a religion for me. I think the people who find political give and take distasteful are the people who look to politics for spiritual fulfillment - words like "hope" and "meaning" get tossed around. I think anybody that looks to politics to bring hope and meaning to their lives is begging to be disappinted.
I would be fine if both parties got ran out of town and we started from scratch on a new direction for America. The system is corrupt and I feel the only way to fix it is remove all corruption and that would mean by, by, Dems & Rep..
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:41 PM   #51
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Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood, I guess we're discussing a) a utopian view of how elections should be won, b) how shift leftwards in ideology is unlikely, c) hating Bush was good enough to get elected.

I'm still confused about few things though, a) how does one become popular, b) isn't reputation of the Bush Administration the rejection of their principles and policy, and c) what constitutes a shift and does losing 51 house seats, 14 senate seats, and the presidency in 4 years qualify?
a) I wish I knew that for sure. Well spoken and thoughtful goes a long way but I doubt there's a real formula. Obama had IT, hell even Bush had something that people sorta liked at one point. McCain never had it. Palin sounded scripted and vapid. Biden sounds doofey and is foot-in-the-mouth prone. Cheney comes off like Mr. Potter. Who the heck knows what IT is.

b) Perhaps so or perhaps markets(political, human, economic, take your pick) are cyclical. There are ups and downs. We've had a lot of downs lately for various reasons. The buck stops at whoever is in charge when the downs come calling. If our econmoy is in the tank come 2012 Obama will answer whether it is his fault or not.

c) something tells me that a drastic shift in political alignment, a true shift, takes decades. Bush doesn't get elected twice in eight years and then magically the whole electorate gets turned on it's principled head. It is almost guaranteed that in either the next general election or the following the Republicans will regain seats. That doesn't mean the shift right has happened. In fact it really goes more to the popularity argument. Those in power rarely get the benefit or being recognized for the positives but they sure as hell get killed over the negatives. I think a lot of people say "Hey it has sorta sucked for a while, maybe I'll vote for the other guys and see what happens." No pricniples, no real thought, just a "grass is greener" type mentality. And if those people actually got honest with themselves and really admitted to themselves what they felt about issues on a principle level they'd always vote that way. They'd always vote based on what they think the candidate will do relative to their principles.
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