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Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Old 05-27-2009, 08:12 PM   #46
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Torture is the answer to the terrorists' version of ambushing the Red Coats from the woods.

And let's not forget, our Forefathers weren't sneaking around trees & bushes to ambush innocent people, women, children, etc. They were combating the British who were using old world tactics & still they victimized countless women & children as the went, destroying entire villages, towns & countrysides with rape, murder & then burning those establishments to the ground. Our Forefathers saw no other choice then to fight like the Natives who had used the exact same tactics during the French-Indian War. The ambush tactics were against military ONLY, not against harmless innocent people, which IS the tactic of the COWARD terrorist. Torture is sometimes the only means to an end. And as I said earlier, it is sometimes the only thing some people understand. Diplomacy can go only so far.
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:55 PM   #47
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Violence perpetuates violence.
I come from the school of: Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:15 PM   #48
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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And let's not forget, our Forefathers weren't sneaking around trees & bushes to ambush innocent people, women, children, etc. They were combating the British who were using old world tactics & still they victimized countless women & children as the went, destroying entire villages, towns & countrysides with rape, murder & then burning those establishments to the ground. Our Forefathers saw no other choice then to fight like the Natives who had used the exact same tactics during the French-Indian War. The ambush tactics were against military ONLY, not against harmless innocent people, which IS the tactic of the COWARD terrorist. Torture is sometimes the only means to an end. And as I said earlier, it is sometimes the only thing some people understand. Diplomacy can go only so far.
There is no innocence and justness to war, either side. Man will always dominate man to injury. All these years and the world's leaders still don't get it.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:20 PM   #49
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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I come from the school of: Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
I thought you renovated that school?
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:33 PM   #50
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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The problem with your conclusion is that they were to armies out to fight each other while terrorist hit innocent people. Now if you used the example of them using IED's (might have those letters wrong) while fighting us in Iraq then your statement would make more sense.
You're missing the point. The point is not to compare the Colonial American tactics to those used by terrorists, I'm not arguing whether one is more cowardly than another (the answer to that is clear and not debatable). The point is that if the United States doesn't adapt to the tactics used by the terrorists, we could end up losing just like the British did.

The adaptation we need to make is to get comfortable using whatever means necessary to extract intel.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:33 PM   #51
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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That's exactly what I'm saying, and it's exactly how the Brits lost the Revolutionary War, they were either too proud to change or too slow to change. Surely you're not suggesting we remain proud and uphold high moral standards at the risk of losing a war?
Would you say that Gandhi was too proud to pick up a gun and kill the British?

I wouldn't say we are being too "proud" to change our morals standards. The people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center are probably happy about our reactions and how we are changing our moral standards to try and stop them. We shouldn't be stooping to their level.

Also, I hope most of you people realize that we are not at war with Islam, there are plenty of people who are Muslim or from the Middle East who are not terrorists and are good people just like you think you are.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:59 PM   #52
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Would you say that Gandhi was too proud to pick up a gun and kill the British?

I wouldn't say we are being too "proud" to change our morals standards. The people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center are probably happy about our reactions and how we are changing our moral standards to try and stop them. We shouldn't be stooping to their level.

Also, I hope most of you people realize that we are not at war with Islam, there are plenty of people who are Muslim or from the Middle East who are not terrorists and are good people just like you think you are.
Good lord that's hilarious.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:33 AM   #53
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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No I wouldn't resort to torture because I wouldn't assume torture was the only viable means of archiving the desired result. Furthermore, your argument for torture in this instance would pave the way for using torture in any scenario where someone's life is in danger.
What are your alternatives to torture? What would you have done with KSM instead of waterboarding him to get information?
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:14 AM   #54
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Would you say that Gandhi was too proud to pick up a gun and kill the British?

I wouldn't say we are being too "proud" to change our morals standards. The people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center are probably happy about our reactions and how we are changing our moral standards to try and stop them. We shouldn't be stooping to their level.

Also, I hope most of you people realize that we are not at war with Islam, there are plenty of people who are Muslim or from the Middle East who are not terrorists and are good people just like you think you are.
First off, nobody here is saying that about Islam, and frankly I find you a little off base with that comment.

Secondly, you haven't really made an argument. Why shouldn't we "stoop to their level"?

Thirdly, Ghandi won independence from the British. So if anything, I'd say it was the British who failed to appropriately adapt to Ghandi's civil disobedience approach. When Ghandi went that route it turned what could have been a military conflict into a political battle for public opinion. Britain failed to meet the challenge.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #55
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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What are your alternatives to torture? What would you have done with KSM instead of waterboarding him to get information?

Befriend him.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:29 AM   #56
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

Take him to a nice BBQ joint.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:46 AM   #57
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

The question was asked, I think by Dmek, that would you be for torturing people if they were Americans. I said yes, and I'm sure most of you were not surprised.

I thought about who would be the perfect candidate to torture. And then it clicked!

For the first American traitor to be tortured I nominate Adam Gadahn, aka the American Al Qaida. If anyone with the authority to put me in the postion to take care of this guy, all I ask is 24hrs, a pair of pliers, a blow torch, and a table saw. You'll not have to pay me. It would be an honor.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:49 AM   #58
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

Is there any evidence that suggests torture leads to information being obtained and the correct info at that? If no, why is torture ok with people? I'm not saying it is or isn't the answer, I'm just asking if it's not leading to the desired result shouldn't other methods be considered?
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #59
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

Trample, perhaps Im wrong here -- but I believe the question was are you okay with Americans being tortured by terrorists, rather than American traitors.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #60
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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The question was asked, I think by Dmek, that would you be for torturing people if they were Americans. I said yes, and I'm sure most of you were not surprised.

I thought about who would be the perfect candidate to torture. And then it clicked!

For the first American traitor to be tortured I nominate Adam Gadahn, aka the American Al Qaida. If anyone with the authority to put me in the postion to take care of this guy, all I ask is 24hrs, a pair of pliers, a blow torch, and a table saw. You'll not have to pay me. It would be an honor.
It'd be my honor Mr. Bauer
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