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Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Old 05-27-2009, 12:05 AM   #46
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Yes. All is fair in love and war.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:02 AM   #47
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Funny thing about war. In times preceding the 18th century, armies met on open battlefields and went toe to toe with one another. While just movies, the scenes from Braveheart tell the tale. Along comes the invention of the firearm and armies still battled in this manner, standing in an open field trading volley after volley.

It wasn't long before a group of militia figured out that hiding in the trees, bushes, and shrubbery could give their men a leg up on the opposition. One army stands out in the open and marching down roads in formation, while the undermanned rag-tag militia hid in the trees and continually ambushed the more powerful army, an army that was ultimately either too proud to adapt or too slow to do so.

Thus the Revolutionary War was won and the United States was born.

You can't criticize terrorists for fighting the way they are. They can't meet us head on, so sneaking around setting bombs and hijacking commercial planes is their next best option. And surely they aspire to sneaking a nuclear weapon into our country. Some might call this style cowardly, but if you want to win that fight you better figure out a way to combat it. If you don't adapt to their style you risk losing the war, no matter how proud you are of your values and way of life.

Sneaking around to set bombs and hijack planes requires coordinated covert planning. If you want to uncover the plan, you have to uncover the intel. Torture is the answer to the terrorists' version of ambushing the Red Coats from the woods.

I see armies not changing the way they fight as a sign of pride. But, everyone seems to be debating the moral issue of torture and do the ends justify the means.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:41 AM   #48
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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I see armies not changing the way they fight as a sign of pride. But, everyone seems to be debating the moral issue of torture and do the ends justify the means.
That's exactly what I'm saying, and it's exactly how the Brits lost the Revolutionary War, they were either too proud to change or too slow to change. Surely you're not suggesting we remain proud and uphold high moral standards at the risk of losing a war?
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:42 AM   #49
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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If Obama released the means of torture then why if it didn't work did he not release the results from what YOU call torture?
Geez Firstdown, you all knock Obama for releasing the memo's.............saying it violates our security and makes us unsafer, or some crap like that. Now, you want Obama to release the information gained from it.........................I wish you all would just make up your minds.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:54 AM   #50
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Are you suggesting the only reason the result weren't released is because they worked? A) Obama didn't release the means of torture, everyone already knew we were water-boarding so the release of the memos is immaterial and B) Obama professed in one of his speeches that torture might have worked though there are alternatives to torturing people to get information.

Give me some other reason he did not release those memos with the others he released?
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:59 AM   #51
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Funny thing about war. In times preceding the 18th century, armies met on open battlefields and went toe to toe with one another. While just movies, the scenes from Braveheart tell the tale. Along comes the invention of the firearm and armies still battled in this manner, standing in an open field trading volley after volley.

It wasn't long before a group of militia figured out that hiding in the trees, bushes, and shrubbery could give their men a leg up on the opposition. One army stands out in the open and marching down roads in formation, while the undermanned rag-tag militia hid in the trees and continually ambushed the more powerful army, an army that was ultimately either too proud to adapt or too slow to do so.

Thus the Revolutionary War was won and the United States was born.

You can't criticize terrorists for fighting the way they are. They can't meet us head on, so sneaking around setting bombs and hijacking commercial planes is their next best option. And surely they aspire to sneaking a nuclear weapon into our country. Some might call this style cowardly, but if you want to win that fight you better figure out a way to combat it. If you don't adapt to their style you risk losing the war, no matter how proud you are of your values and way of life.

Sneaking around to set bombs and hijack planes requires coordinated covert planning. If you want to uncover the plan, you have to uncover the intel. Torture is the answer to the terrorists' version of ambushing the Red Coats from the woods.
The problem with your conclusion is that they were to armies out to fight each other while terrorist hit innocent people. Now if you used the example of them using IED's (might have those letters wrong) while fighting us in Iraq then your statement would make more sense.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:17 AM   #52
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Give me some other reason he did not release those memos with the others he released?
What are you talking about? If you want to make a statement, make a statement.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:11 PM   #53
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Geez Firstdown, you all knock Obama for releasing the memo's.............saying it violates our security and makes us unsafer, or some crap like that. Now, you want Obama to release the information gained from it.........................I wish you all would just make up your minds.
I agree the information should not have been released in the first place but if your going to release the info don't pick and choose to fit your agenda. Which is how I see what he is doing.
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Old 05-27-2009, 04:41 PM   #54
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

Isn't it the case at this point that more journalists/celebrities have been waterboarded than terrorists?
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Old 05-27-2009, 04:56 PM   #55
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

maybe the word your looking for is should have....
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:04 PM   #56
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Isn't it the case at this point that more journalists/celebrities have been waterboarded than terrorists?
Yea but they are Americans so who cares.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:03 PM   #57
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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All is fair in love and war.
Far too many Americans are forgetting that.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:12 PM   #58
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Torture is the answer to the terrorists' version of ambushing the Red Coats from the woods.

And let's not forget, our Forefathers weren't sneaking around trees & bushes to ambush innocent people, women, children, etc. They were combating the British who were using old world tactics & still they victimized countless women & children as the went, destroying entire villages, towns & countrysides with rape, murder & then burning those establishments to the ground. Our Forefathers saw no other choice then to fight like the Natives who had used the exact same tactics during the French-Indian War. The ambush tactics were against military ONLY, not against harmless innocent people, which IS the tactic of the COWARD terrorist. Torture is sometimes the only means to an end. And as I said earlier, it is sometimes the only thing some people understand. Diplomacy can go only so far.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:55 PM   #59
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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Violence perpetuates violence.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:15 PM   #60
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Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

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And let's not forget, our Forefathers weren't sneaking around trees & bushes to ambush innocent people, women, children, etc. They were combating the British who were using old world tactics & still they victimized countless women & children as the went, destroying entire villages, towns & countrysides with rape, murder & then burning those establishments to the ground. Our Forefathers saw no other choice then to fight like the Natives who had used the exact same tactics during the French-Indian War. The ambush tactics were against military ONLY, not against harmless innocent people, which IS the tactic of the COWARD terrorist. Torture is sometimes the only means to an end. And as I said earlier, it is sometimes the only thing some people understand. Diplomacy can go only so far.
There is no innocence and justness to war, either side. Man will always dominate man to injury. All these years and the world's leaders still don't get it.
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