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Old 06-02-2009, 09:20 AM   #61
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Re: Obama Motors

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Well, when GM spends that money, it's not going to be burned in a fire. The money that they are spending is revenue to somebody, and most likely, that somebody will be a private entity. So, the contributions of the taxpayers aren't going to be in vain in the way you are suggesting. All that's happening is that the current state of the economy is forcing you to reinvest some of what you would otherwise consider discretionary income into our economic system in the name of stability. Wheter via a bailout increasing taxes, or an increase in the unemployment tax seems like semantics to me.

We're a society that is interdependent on each other to an extent. A scenario where a major part of society could just fall out and everyone else is unaffected just isn't feasible. From an economic standpoint, the bailout doesn't guarentee the success of GM per se, but unless the capital ends up being sucked up into the pockets of shareholders, it's guarenteed to benefit the overall economy in some way.
If your did not hear I believe that GM no longer has share holders. The problem I see is we have allready dumped 20 bil into GM with no results so now we are going to dump another 30 bil into a long shot to see if that works. I'm guess that 30 bil will turn into another 50 bil. I don't think the impact of GM going under would be 80 bil in unemployment benifits.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:09 AM   #62
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Re: Obama Motors

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
um, anybody else think that the reason *most* europeans drive those "piece of shit" cars is out of necessity. High price of fuel, over congestion and limits on space make these cars necessary. Where exactly do you think we're headed, back to 1965 and cheap gas? And for those really wanting to bitch about the perceived lack of performance in electric cars, check out the numbers and 0-60 times compared to internal combustion.
Damn! Sub-5 zero to sixty!? There aren't many cars that can do that, and the ones that do are pretty expensive. I wonder how much this car will cost?
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:50 AM   #63
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Re: Obama Motors

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It's not a matter of "want" to be like Europe, it's need. Let me put on my capt. obvious hat: There is a finite supply of oil, it will run out, even if you run around every corner of the U.S. with a drill and a pipeline. So, yes oil prices are going to go up more and more as there is less and less. The only reason we have "more space" than europe is because we haven't been here as long to breed and overpopulate like the overgrown cockroaches that we are. That too will change with time. So, if you want to see what the US will look like in a few decades (or whenever) take a look at Europe. Similarly, I know the "we need to drill in the ANWR" folks are generally the same crew that teach intelligent design in their schools, so any mention of natural selection is verboten. That said, this process is pretty much an example of evolutionary design. The cars that adapt to the changing environment and restrictions will "live on" while the gas guzzling behemoths will go "extinct." So you can go kicking and screaming the whole way if you want, it's what's coming.

BTW- I lived in Europe for 6 years, this country becoming more like that continent is not a bad thing, imho.

Good stuff man...the big picture is not often visualized. :thumb:
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:35 PM   #64
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Re: Obama Motors

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
It's not a matter of "want" to be like Europe, it's need. Let me put on my capt. obvious hat: There is a finite supply of oil, it will run out, even if you run around every corner of the U.S. with a drill and a pipeline. So, yes oil prices are going to go up more and more as there is less and less. The only reason we have "more space" than europe is because we haven't been here as long to breed and overpopulate like the overgrown cockroaches that we are. That too will change with time. So, if you want to see what the US will look like in a few decades (or whenever) take a look at Europe. Similarly, I know the "we need to drill in the ANWR" folks are generally the same crew that teach intelligent design in their schools, so any mention of natural selection is verboten. That said, this process is pretty much an example of evolutionary design. The cars that adapt to the changing environment and restrictions will "live on" while the gas guzzling behemoths will go "extinct." So you can go kicking and screaming the whole way if you want, it's what's coming.

BTW- I lived in Europe for 6 years, this country becoming more like that continent is not a bad thing, imho.
No the people who say drill in ANWR say use the resources we have while we come up with a better solution and its a quick fit to our current needs. I welcome the day the we have the technology to move away from oil but right now we really don't. I'm not really one to talk becuase my truck gets around 15 mpg (I drive it very little) and my boat holds 135 gallons of gas which will last me almost a month unless I do alot of fishing. So I'm all for better gas milage.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:43 PM   #65
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Re: Obama Motors

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Hey , how are you Jsarno ? That is not my car , I did have a 71 SS Chevelle that was pretty damn sweet , until some clown smashed it one morning. If I ever get to the point where I earn 100k / year , I just might buy another ?
I'm making it man, thanks for asking. How bout yourself?

71 SS Chevelle was a sweet car...was it the 454? What was your color combo?
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:44 PM   #66
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Re: Obama Motors

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I think the big difference is that we can make more electricity, we really can't make any more oil. (I'm not counting bio fuels as "oil")
If we "can" make more, why aren't we? We don't have enough energy right now, so why aren't we making more?
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:57 PM   #67
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Re: Obama Motors

Fail. Didn't know Obama would have to be a car salesman in addition to being President.
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Old 06-02-2009, 02:12 PM   #68
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Re: Obama Motors

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
It's not a matter of "want" to be like Europe, it's need. Let me put on my capt. obvious hat: There is a finite supply of oil, it will run out, even if you run around every corner of the U.S. with a drill and a pipeline. So, yes oil prices are going to go up more and more as there is less and less. The only reason we have "more space" than europe is because we haven't been here as long to breed and overpopulate like the overgrown cockroaches that we are. That too will change with time. So, if you want to see what the US will look like in a few decades (or whenever) take a look at Europe. Similarly, I know the "we need to drill in the ANWR" folks are generally the same crew that teach intelligent design in their schools, so any mention of natural selection is verboten. That said, this process is pretty much an example of evolutionary design. The cars that adapt to the changing environment and restrictions will "live on" while the gas guzzling behemoths will go "extinct." So you can go kicking and screaming the whole way if you want, it's what's coming.

BTW- I lived in Europe for 6 years, this country becoming more like that continent is not a bad thing, imho.
Natural Selection eh?

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Old 06-03-2009, 08:26 PM   #69
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Re: Obama Motors

https://community.chryslerlistens.co...ion_ticket=raf

Here you go. Chrysler Listens. Log in and tell them why you would or wouldn't buy their cars. I would say this is not political but more of a giant think tank that filters back up to engineers, designers, and management.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:08 PM   #70
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Re: Obama Motors

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Originally Posted by drew54 View Post
https://community.chryslerlistens.co...ion_ticket=raf

Here you go. Chrysler Listens. Log in and tell them why you would or wouldn't buy their cars. I would say this is not political but more of a giant think tank that filters back up to engineers, designers, and management.

Apparently not in their survey if you say "No, I do not own, nor would I consider purchasing" a Chrysler."

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At this time, we're seeking people with a different criteria match for this community. Still, we'd love for you to share any ideas or recommendations you have about our company and our products at chryslerlistens.com.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:16 PM   #71
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Re: Obama Motors

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They won't be forcing them on you, for crying out loud. You can always choose a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Volkswagen, Volvo... and on and on if you don't like what the new GM has to offer.

I'm not a fan of the US Government taking over corporations, but this is overreaction at its finest.
Yeah, I mean, I though GM was bankrupt because few people were buying their cars. Now NO ONE will buy them & we will ALL be driving Hondas, Toyotas, Hyundais, etc.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:45 PM   #72
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Re: Obama Motors

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They stole my shit! er something...
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:47 PM   #73
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Re: Obama Motors

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If we "can" make more, why aren't we? We don't have enough energy right now, so why aren't we making more?
because it's easier to burn shit for fuel. i'm not even kidding.
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