House advances Cap & Trade bill

mlmpetert · 06-26-2009, 01:57 PM

To me this is a major piece of legislation that needs to be acknowledged and talked about more than it is before it's too late (for bad or good)....

The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result.

Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won't pinch wallets, behind the scenes they've acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them.

The Cap and Tax Fiction - WSJ.com

FRPLG · 06-26-2009, 02:27 PM

Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.

firstdown · 06-26-2009, 02:55 PM

From what I just heard on the news they are still 12 votes short on getting this bill passed. I believe I heard 17 undecided so we know they are getting hammered to vote yes for the bill and I'm sure promises of $ going to their home town for a yes vote. I also heard that last night the Dems added another 300 pages to the bill but I'm sure everyone has had plenty of time to read those additional 300 pages.

mlmpetert · 06-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Im not all that up on politic lingo. I was going off this article that says the House Advances Cap and Trade bill to the Floor. I am assuming Floor is short for the Senate Floor?

House Narrowly Advances Climate Bill to the Floor - Political News - FOXNews.com

It would be great news if this does get defeated.

saden1 · 06-26-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

When the Heritage Foundation did its analysis of Waxman-Markey, it broadly compared the economy with and without the carbon tax. Under this more comprehensive scenario, it found Waxman-Markey would cost the economy $161 billion in 2020, which is $1,870 for a family of four. As the bill's restrictions kick in, that number rises to $6,800 for a family of four by 2035.

As always doing analysis from a business angle and not the right and fair angle. I wonder if The Heritage Foundation did the same GDP analysis with respect the Iraq war and the Wall St. Journal reported it? In 2020 our GDP is expected to be 29 trillion and while 161 billion is real money the real question should be does the cost (0.0055 % of the GDP) justify the result?

The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.

p.s. I wonder what the GDP cost of bailing out Florida every time a hurricane strikes is?

Trample the Elderly · 06-26-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.

Your not the only one who feels this way.

A MINORITY VIEW

firstdown · 06-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

As always doing analysis from a business angle and not the right and fair angle. I wonder if The Heritage Foundation did the same GDP analysis with respect the Iraq war and the Wall St. Journal reported it? In 2020 our GDP is expected to be 29 trillion and while 161 billion is real money the real question should be does the cost (0.0055 % of the GDP) justify the result?

The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.

p.s. I wonder what the GDP cost of bailing out Florida every time a hurricane strikes is?

All the storms in FL over the past 5 year was probably 1/1000 the cost of NO.

saden1 · 06-26-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.

Better luck next time, assuming there will be a next time.

Slingin Sammy 33 · 06-26-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.

The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.

saden1 · 06-26-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.

I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.

firstdown · 06-26-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.

Well if those are goverment figures then it will cost $175X29 (thats the goverments always uses out come based education figures correction factor)=$5,075 by the end of 2009.

FRPLG · 06-26-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.

No he often said just "taxes". Play semantics all you want, the message he was relaying was clear..."I'll raise taxes on rich people but not anyone else. So vote for me and the money going out of your pockets won't change." It was an unqualified notion.

saden1 · 06-26-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

No he often said just "taxes". Play semantics all you want, the message he was relaying was clear..."I'll raise taxes on rich people but not anyone else. So vote for me and the money going out of your pockets won't change." It was an unqualified notion.

This is where personal responsibility comes into play and I suppose all those stupid Americans that voted for him weren't aware they were going to get screwed...what a stupid bunch. And of course there are some of us who really are for cap and trade and truly want to doom America. Democracy is a beautiful thing when you get what you want.

Let's go to the video replay:

Trample the Elderly · 06-26-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.

You just don't get it do you. Elderly starts with an E. Perhaps you should worry about your own eyes. I'll defer to Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell. The link is posted in an earlier post.

The difference between you and the average schmuck Obama voter is you actually paid attention to what he said. I met a lot of people like you in college, book smart, but street stupid.

GTripp0012 · 06-26-2009, 05:06 PM

This is an older article, but:

FactCheck.org: Cap-and-Trade Cost Inflation

06-26-2009, 01:57 PM	#1
mlmpetert Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Richmond Posts: 3,207	House advances Cap & Trade bill To me this is a major piece of legislation that needs to be acknowledged and talked about more than it is before it's too late (for bad or good).... The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result. Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won't pinch wallets, behind the scenes they've acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them. The Cap and Tax Fiction - WSJ.com __________________ https://constitutionminute.hillsdale.edu/episode1

06-26-2009, 02:27 PM	#2
FRPLG Franchise Player Join Date: May 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 9,232	Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.

06-26-2009, 02:55 PM	#3
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 49 Posts: 15,179	Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill From what I just heard on the news they are still 12 votes short on getting this bill passed. I believe I heard 17 undecided so we know they are getting hammered to vote yes for the bill and I'm sure promises of $ going to their home town for a yes vote. I also heard that last night the Dems added another 300 pages to the bill but I'm sure everyone has had plenty of time to read those additional 300 pages.

06-26-2009, 03:06 PM	#4
mlmpetert Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Richmond Posts: 3,207	Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill Im not all that up on politic lingo. I was going off this article that says the House Advances Cap and Trade bill to the Floor. I am assuming Floor is short for the Senate Floor? House Narrowly Advances Climate Bill to the Floor - Political News - FOXNews.com It would be great news if this does get defeated. __________________ https://constitutionminute.hillsdale.edu/episode1

06-26-2009, 05:06 PM	#15
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill This is an older article, but: FactCheck.org: Cap-and-Trade Cost Inflation __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

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House advances Cap & Trade bill

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