Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Off-Topic Discussion > Parking Lot


What has Obama done well?

Parking Lot


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2009, 07:34 PM   #136
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I was stationed in Japan for 3 years. Huge difference in returning a bow to another citizen, which I did often, and bowing (especially as POTUS) to a monarch or king. In this instance the US commander was bowing to show remorse and regret, which he should've in this circumstance. Someone under his command disgraced him and the entire U.S. Obama has NOTHING to bow to any foreign leader for (I know we've gone down this road before so rather than the page long responses let me summarize: saden: The U.S. has many things to be ashamed of. SS33: The U.S. is the greatest country on earth. Both posts contain YouTube clips and links to various sites backing up each point)

In meeting with anyone from another government I would shake hands but never bow (and certainly not hold hands and kiss either). In the Far East I would return a bow, but not bow first.
My post was in response to TTL post that indicated that his superior and himself (admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.

Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?

When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing what bowing is and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.

p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?

Last edited by saden1; 08-18-2009 at 07:47 PM.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 08-18-2009, 08:20 PM   #137
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
My post was in response to TTL post that indicated that his superior and himself (admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.
I was interpreting TTE's response as in reference to the POTUS's deep bow (much like a Japanese bow), maybe I missed or misinterpreted something.

Quote:
Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?
The difference is in the situation. Bowing as a civilian in a non-offical capacity to another civilian in a foreign land is completely acceptable. But Obama isn't a civilian for at least the next 3 1/2 years, he's the POTUS and Commander in Chief. As Commander in Chief, no, he shouldn't bow in remorse IMO, nor should the Secretary of State, a lower level official like the regional or base commander, fine.

Quote:
When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing what bowing is and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.
Thanks for the info, but again what a civilian does in a social setting isn't comparable to bowing in deference or submissiveness to any foreign gov't official or monarch/king. If that makes me unwise to only bow before the Pope and the Eucharist, then I guess I am unwise.

Quote:
p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?
Working on it.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:34 PM   #138
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 15,994
Re: What has Obama done well?

This is reaching "Tom Brady's body language is bad" territory.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 09:01 PM   #139
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
I was interpreting TTE's response as in reference to the POTUS's deep bow (much like a Japanese bow), maybe I missed or misinterpreted something.

The difference is in the situation. Bowing as a civilian in a non-offical capacity to another civilian in a foreign land is completely acceptable. But Obama isn't a civilian for at least the next 3 1/2 years, he's the POTUS and Commander in Chief. As Commander in Chief, no, he shouldn't bow in remorse IMO, nor should the Secretary of State, a lower level official like the regional or base commander, fine.

Thanks for the info, but again what a civilian does in a social setting isn't comparable to bowing in deference or submissiveness to any foreign gov't official or monarch/king. If that makes me unwise to only bow before the Pope and the Eucharist, then I guess I am unwise.

Working on it.
And so I am left to ask why you feel this way. Why do you find it palatable in one instance and not at all in another? Is it merely due to the importance of the individual in question and what they represent? If this is the case you espouse the very thing you detest in the symbolism of bowing (servility and the inequality of men).
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 09:38 PM   #140
Playmaker
 
Trample the Elderly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Three Chopt Virginia
Age: 37
Posts: 2,906
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
My post was in response to TTL post that indicated that his superior and himself (admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.

Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?

When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing what bowing is and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.

p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?
We were representatives of the U.S. We weren't two schmucks on a fishing trip. I'm working on finding you that info. Many have alluded to the UCMJ which I did not. That is used to presecute more than to outline behavior from what I can remember. Had I bowed I would've probably been brought up on conduct unbecoming of an NCO. It wouldn't have been a huge offense. I'm looking through the Armed Forces Code of Conduct.

You are coming from a different frame of mind than some of the people who understand what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, there is no such thing as moral / cultural relativism for public officials. These are not expatriates doing as Romans would. This has nothing to do with respecting another's countries traditions.

I'll bet my bottom dollar we don't serve Saudi Princes N.C style BBQ for state functions. We do on the other hand make Muslim women take off their veils for official documents. They cannot have driver's licenses looking like ninjas just because it's part of their culture. I'm unfamiliar with the law, but I'm guessing I'd not be allowed to brew up Christmas Ale in Dubai.

As for that Naval Officer who bowed, well I've no opinion on that. My gut tells me he was probably apologizing for some drunken serviceman, but I don't know? When I was in the big honcho for the Navy blew his brains out because he wore some ribbons that weren't awarded to him. What can I say? Squids are strange.
__________________
A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.
Trample the Elderly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 09:45 PM   #141
Playmaker
 
Trample the Elderly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Three Chopt Virginia
Age: 37
Posts: 2,906
Re: What has Obama done well?

If Obama wants to repair an image, he should do so with people who matter.

__________________
A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.
Trample the Elderly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:01 PM   #142
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 52
Posts: 9,256
Re: What has Obama done well?

Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:12 PM   #143
Quietly Dominating the East
 
Hog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 9,717
Re: What has Obama done well?

Prophetic wisdom............
__________________
Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios
thankyou Joe.......
“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs
Hog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:13 PM   #144
Franchise Player
 
ArtMonkDrillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Age: 32
Posts: 8,030
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News
Miss Manners looks like Norman Bates in his mother's wig. I don't trust "her".

__________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." The Dude
ArtMonkDrillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:17 PM   #145
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 52
Posts: 9,256
Re: What has Obama done well?

^^ You know what? I want to see a birth certificate.
__________________
You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.
JoeRedskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 02:35 AM   #146
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
If Obama wants to repair an image, he should do so with people who matter.


Repair his image? With whom?
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 03:07 AM   #147
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
Repair his image? With whom?
The poor soul is confused as always, he is unable do the necessary calculation required to conclude that it's not a snub but rather an introduction of the American delegation to the Russian president (quite obvious by the last handshake).
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 04:00 AM   #148
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
We were representatives of the U.S. We weren't two schmucks on a fishing trip. I'm working on finding you that info. Many have alluded to the UCMJ which I did not. That is used to presecute more than to outline behavior from what I can remember. Had I bowed I would've probably been brought up on conduct unbecoming of an NCO. It wouldn't have been a huge offense. I'm looking through the Armed Forces Code of Conduct.

You are coming from a different frame of mind than some of the people who understand what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, there is no such thing as moral / cultural relativism for public officials. These are not expatriates doing as Romans would. This has nothing to do with respecting another's countries traditions.

I'll bet my bottom dollar we don't serve Saudi Princes N.C style BBQ for state functions. We do on the other hand make Muslim women take off their veils for official documents. They cannot have driver's licenses looking like ninjas just because it's part of their culture. I'm unfamiliar with the law, but I'm guessing I'd not be allowed to brew up Christmas Ale in Dubai.

As for that Naval Officer who bowed, well I've no opinion on that. My gut tells me he was probably apologizing for some drunken serviceman, but I don't know? When I was in the big honcho for the Navy blew his brains out because he wore some ribbons that weren't awarded to him. What can I say? Squids are strange.
Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman is quite a serious offense and if convicted punishable through court martial.

Don't bet your bottom dollar, a BBQ is fine so long as you don't serve them pork and serve halal meat (if they are ostensibly religious). Similarly, I wouldn't expect our public officials to be served bush meat on their foreign visits with the expectations that they would dig in.

With respect to not allowing them to cover their face I agree with it as a matter of public safety and the alternative of wearing a hijab is permissible in all states. Several states actually allow you not to take an ID accompanied with a photo on religious grounds and some will allow you to wear your ninja mask with the expectation that you will show your full face to an officer of the law if requested to do so. Clearly, there is no universal law against the ninja get'up.

I don't know if you can brew your own beer but I do know you can walk into a liquor store in Dubai with alcohol license in hand and buy any sort of beer that catches your fancy. I'm not puzzled by their laws though as I am still unable to freely grow my on cannabis plants.

Last edited by saden1; 08-19-2009 at 04:27 AM.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 07:20 AM   #149
Playmaker
 
724Skinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,508
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
The poor soul is confused as always, he is unable do the necessary calculation required to conclude that it's not a snub but rather an introduction of the American delegation to the Russian president (quite obvious by the last handshake).

Okay, good. I watched it a few times and thought that something didn't quite feel right with regards to the entire group "snubbing" the President.
__________________
"I hope I'm getting better. I hope you haven't seen my best." - Jim Zorn
724Skinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 07:33 AM   #150
Gamebreaker
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 13,113
Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News
best line in the article:

Quote:
Then, about half a century ago, came the American huggy movement.
(ok I added the smiley)
can't we all just get along??
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.35733 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25