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What has Obama done well?

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Old 08-16-2009, 02:17 PM   #61
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
We do when our interests align (Redskins)?
Amazing how football is the common thread. (pardon the pun)
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:21 PM   #62
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is the representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.
Well, when you have time please let us know where it says what you claim in the Military Code of Conduct. And just to be clear it says nothing of that sort whatsoever.

And yes, the Flag is more important than the president...this is very obvious to even someone like me who believes flag burning in protest is permissible.
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:21 PM   #63
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Re: What has Obama done well?

Chiding Obama for bowing to somebody -- anybody? Who cares? You guys are really grasping for straws...

TTE: calling out Saden about ego, when you're the one with so much pride that you'd never bow to another person? Pot meet kettle -- pride = ego.

Stick to the issues people.
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:23 PM   #64
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
Ha! What about when a flag is lowered to half-mast for the passing of a President? Just one of many examples of contradiction within our policies. Good job proving your point.
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:46 PM   #65
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Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is the representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.
But isn't subvervience a matter of what's perceived to be in one's heart? And I can you tell you from experience, during my enlistment during the Gulf War, we were briefed prior to leaving the ship in foreign ports. Often times we displayed a great deal of deference towards local custom and authorities.

I haven't read the UCMJ or the Code of Ethics in many years, but I'd be interested in seeing where bowing is punishable by law or deemed unpatriotic. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that we should bow or do anything of the sort, but I would like to see where it's written.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:23 PM   #66
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
First of all, when you say us darned arrogant Americans you need to speak for yourself.

Second, the President of the United States doesn't bow before anyone, nor does any American. Showing respect means a handshake, for an officer it means a salute. When we were trained in dealing with foreign officials, to include Monarchs, it was very clear, you do not bow before anyone. If a schmuck PFC can understand that, I see no reason why his commander in chief cannot?

Going to another country and expecting them to speak English? Again, speak for yourself.
just from the tone of almost all your posts, you might even be above the most arrogant of Americans
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:39 PM   #67
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Re: What has Obama done well?

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:25 PM   #68
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
We do when our interests align (Redskins)?
Well said...............HTTR
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:00 PM   #69
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
Chiding Obama for bowing to somebody -- anybody? Who cares? You guys are really grasping for straws...

TTE: calling out Saden about ego, when you're the one with so much pride that you'd never bow to another person? Pot meet kettle -- pride = ego.

Stick to the issues people.
As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.

You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:01 PM   #70
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Re: What has Obama done well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is the representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.
From what I understand it really depends on the culture. Bowing in many cultures is a sign or respect or even that of an apology. In some cultures yes it is a sign of subservience. The key is to know your audience.

On a related note, was W out of line when he held hands and touched cheeks with a Saudi prince?
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:32 PM   #71
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Re: What has Obama done well?

On this note, what would the expectation be for a Catholic president meeting with the Pope? From a starting point, such a meeting would be a meeting of two heads of state (U.S. and Vatican). But, I suppose theoretically, there would be a level of meaning for that particular U.S. president that would transcend politics, and isn't it common for Catholics meeting the Pope to make a sort of gesture? (Kneeling maybe? I honestly don't know.) If it is common for a Catholic to do such a thing, and a president happened to be Catholic and did it, but claimed that it was in his/her "status" as a Catholic, how would people come down on that?
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:08 PM   #72
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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just from the tone of almost all your posts, you might even be above the most arrogant of Americans
I will disagree with you here...he has a tone of someone that is disheartened by what he sees, and now what he is hearing to his responses. He is 100% right about how the president of the USA and commander in chief should act. For anyone that has been in the military, this is pretty obvious. To call him an arrogant american (above the most arrogant to be exact) is a gross misinterpretation. He's offended, as should he should be. If you understood what he understands, you would be too.
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:49 PM   #73
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.

You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.

thats right. obama knew what he was doing. he had been going all around, appoligizing(sp) for america. obama hates america, this is why he does such things. remember folks, obama is not an american. he was not born in this country.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:09 PM   #74
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Re: What has Obama done well?

one thing Obama has done very well, is to claim crisis at every political opportunity. This is a known political tactic, and not necessarily a slam. By focusing on the "current crisis"(real or created) he can push his agenda through, and by using items that he knows are hot button, he can get momentum on his side. I do think this sets him up for trouble if a true crisis raises up.

Overall, he has pushed his agenda about as well as a President with the majority in both houses could. I am amazed he hasn't gotten his way with health care, but I am not complaining either.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:38 PM   #75
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Re: What has Obama done well?

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thats right. obama knew what he was doing. he had been going all around, appoligizing(sp) for america. obama hates america, this is why he does such things.
While I tend to agree with you here, although not nearly as matter of fact or blatent as you put it, what you have next is incorrect:

Quote:
remember folks, obama is not an american. he was not born in this country.
Read this:
snopes.com: Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?

Hey, I can understand not wanting him to be american, therefore not eligible for president, but he was born in Hawaii...read that entire article, it will explain it. I thought we went over this like a year ago?
That sounds like Gore..."He didn't win the electoral votes!" Well, like it or not, Bush still won fair and square, as did obama.
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