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Obama's speech to students today

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Old 09-09-2009, 07:51 PM   #46
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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i guess i'm a knucklehead.
Not to highjack the thread, but even if you believe the State of Hawaii is in the bag for Obama and would potentially lie, don't you think the RNC spent 6 or 7 figures investigating this during the run-up to the election to see if this allegation had any legs?
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:20 AM   #47
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Not to highjack the thread, but even if you believe the State of Hawaii is in the bag for Obama and would potentially lie, don't you think the RNC spent 6 or 7 figures investigating this during the run-up to the election to see if this allegation had any legs?
More to the point, Hillary Clinton would have found out and destroyed Obama's candidacy. This is the best proof to me that he's legit. You think the Clinton's would have allowed themselves to be taken down by a constitunionally inelligible candidate? And they have the ways and means to find out.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:33 AM   #48
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Based on what?

Look - I think any "outrage" over this was dumb. The man's the President and wanted to call the nation's children to study. Further, he did so in what appeared to be a non-partisan fashion. Excellent. I think it should be a mandatory part of every President's term.

But let's not be naive here. The country is polarized and the media (left and right) love to stir things up and overhype any controversy (good ratings don'cha know). The left media likes to portray the right as a bunch of dumb hicks incapable of rational thought and the right media likes to portray the left as a bunch of fellow travellers out to destroy capitalism and democracy. All it takes is a few idiots to say "He's trying to brainwash the kids" for it to play right into these two lines of thought. That's what the "controversy" was about - it had nothing to do with race.
Eh...I think saying "it had nothing to do with race" is painting with a broad brush. My future mother-in-law is a teacher in Southern Louisiana and I'm not going to get into specifics, but there were teachers in those schools saying that they would refuse to air the speech because of things other than the man's politics, more to the point, because of the color of his skin. There have been letters to the editor about how it would have been better if Satan himself were to have addressed the children...are you f*cking kidding me?

I have to say, I don't believe Louisiana is unique in this regard. I'm certain there are a lot of school systems in the South riled up about this one. I'm positive there are places in South Carolina (I used to live there) who had the same sorts of issues with the airing of the speech. And what would be the argument against it? "How dare he tell my kids to stay in school?!...The nerve of him to promote hard work!"

I understand that some of the outrage is over the fact that there are Republicans who don't agree with a Dem "trying to push his agenda on kids," but let's be realistic and not stick our collective heads in the sand; it was in the minority, but plenty of the outrage was due to the color of his skin.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:04 AM   #49
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

ya know- i'm so sick of the f-ing race card. The same thing happened to Bush 1, see earlier link. Our politics have become so divisive that a congressman openly yelled at our president yesterday. Race should be, and is to most rational people under 65, a non-issue. Do I know that Obama is black, yes, do I know my employees are black, white, Thai, Nepalese, etc. Yes. Does it affect my interactions with them, yes- because each culture has mannerisms and uniqueness which should never be lost or dismissed. But does that fact affect how you evaluate a person's work, character, integrity - no, those are judged on individual merit.
Race is a fact of life, as JR said, but is it a fact used for evaluation, I would argue only by the oldest generations. I know my kids could give a rat's a** about the color of their friends skins, and if you told them that that was a reason not to be friends with someone they would be confused. Now if you say someone is of bad character-regardless of race, they would understand that.

Older (and I include myself) Americans need to get over race, it's not a reason, an excuse, or justification for any action. A person should be judged on his/her actions, and character. That was MLK Jr's dream.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:09 AM   #50
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

and for those who argue that the upset was over race, how can you even be on a frickin football board, and see all the positive ways that athletes of all races interact with kids, and parents are not sending letters of protest. If Clinton Portis goes to any school outside of Dallas, and talks to the kids about being the best you can be, or Chris Cooley goes to any school and talks about safe internet usage, are ANY parents writing letters to the editor... NO. The outrage (which was overblown no doubt) was due to Pres. Obama's politics being hated by many, not because of his race. people who can't see that or want to play the race factor are as ignorant or blind followers as those on the other side of the event
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:33 AM   #51
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

Perhaps I presented the race issue incorrectly. I really wasn't trying to say it was the primary issue for the outrage over this speech, just that I believe it's an element in there somewhere for some people, even if it's a small, ignorant minority.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:35 AM   #52
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
and for those who argue that the upset was over race, how can you even be on a frickin football board, and see all the positive ways that athletes of all races interact with kids, and parents are not sending letters of protest. If Clinton Portis goes to any school outside of Dallas, and talks to the kids about being the best you can be, or Chris Cooley goes to any school and talks about safe internet usage, are ANY parents writing letters to the editor... NO. The outrage (which was overblown no doubt) was due to Pres. Obama's politics being hated by many, not because of his race. people who can't see that or want to play the race factor are as ignorant or blind followers as those on the other side of the event
So, you're going to say that NO part of ANY of the outrage was about his race. I already acknowledged that it wasn't the majority. If you think that 0% of parents were upset about Obama's race before his politics, you're flat out wrong.

I'm not trying to play the race card. I'm telling you what I know to be a fact based on my fiancee's mother's experiences. She's a teacher in a school for Christ sake. Why would she fake outrage and call us? What would that accomplish?
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:45 AM   #53
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

I am saying that the vast majority of this country acknowledges that the people who dwell on race are idiots. was it a tiny sliver of the uproar sure, but to say that it was any more than that is to ignore the reality that our political system has become so divisive that a president from either party is going to be criticized and accused of manipulating the youth. Again, there are far left believers who think the last president was "satan", and would have mocked him for talking to the youth like that. (i could certainly see threads and discussions on how a "stupid" person like him shouldn't try to talk to the youth because he can't say nuclear), is that race based, no, it is political hatred- which is far more venomous at this point in our country's dialogue, than any race based hatred.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:55 AM   #54
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
I am saying that the vast majority of this country acknowledges that the people who dwell on race are idiots. was it a tiny sliver of the uproar sure, but to say that it was any more than that is to ignore the reality that our political system has become so divisive that a president from either party is going to be criticized and accused of manipulating the youth. Again, there are far left believers who think the last president was "satan", and would have mocked him for talking to the youth like that. (i could certainly see threads and discussions on how a "stupid" person like him shouldn't try to talk to the youth because he can't say nuclear), is that race based, no, it is political hatred- which is far more venomous at this point in our country's dialogue, than any race based hatred.
I agree with that. I just wanted you to clarify. As for political hatred, it's definitely a problem in this country and it's the reason I don't engage in any of the political "debates" that take place on this board.

*Most on this board are not guilty of this*
People just don't take the time to learn about issues anymore. They grab hold of buzzwords and use those to shape their point of view and then it just turns into a shouting match because no one actually knows what they're talking about. It's pretty horrendous at this point and it's the reason I refuse to talk politics with anyone in public.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:03 AM   #55
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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I agree with that. I just wanted you to clarify. As for political hatred, it's definitely a problem in this country and it's the reason I don't engage in any of the political "debates" that take place on this board.

*Most on this board are not guilty of this*
People just don't take the time to learn about issues anymore. They grab hold of buzzwords and use those to shape their point of view and then it just turns into a shouting match because no one actually knows what they're talking about. It's pretty horrendous at this point and it's the reason I refuse to talk politics with anyone in public.
As great as the internet is for sharing information it is horrendous at creating buzzwords. and the filtering of information also adds to this. I have Sirius, I mainly listen to NFL, but I hear ads all the time for, basically, a left leaning station, a right leaning station, and a centrist channel. Likewise people watch the news that most agrees with their views(i don't watch newschannels - where does that put me, hmmm). So where in the old days news was filtered through one, and people discussed and made up their minds, now it seems like people find a "trusted" outlet and that becomes their source of information.

I am speaking generally, obviously there is a spectrum to this effect, but I think it will only grow more pronounced and divisive in the coming years.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:15 AM   #56
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

I was clarifying, not changing.

I'm glad you don't see color, unfortunately there are many out there that still do.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:21 AM   #57
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

Okay, some race plays itself in people's view of our President, sure.

Anyway, the speech was great, very motivational. I think every now and then you have to tell kids that "this is your life, do something about it. Don't wait for the pity party handout because you being dealt a bad hand." Well done, President. This is the kind of stuff (character building, self-reliance, accountability, etc) that will get our nation back on track.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:23 AM   #58
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
There is definitely anger against Obama out there, but anger against his policies and positions (which some feel are Marxist/socialist) and anger against him because of his race are TOTALLY different things. I have no problem with someone who feels anger against his policies/positions and withholds their children from school. That's not to say I agree with that thought process, but to be against a person because of their actions is one thing. However, anyone who has anger/hatred towards him because of race is completely wrong and completely stupid.
Yeah, but this lady probably couldn't even spell "policy".

I think parents should teach their children to be critical thinkers, which means exposing them to all different points of view -- good and bad. You can't shelter your kids from propaganda, but you can teach them how to see through it. She was withholding her kids from school to avoid the so called "brainwashing," but by doing so, she's just enforcing her own kind.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:00 PM   #59
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
ya know- i'm so sick of the f-ing race card. The same thing happened to Bush 1, see earlier link. Our politics have become so divisive that a congressman openly yelled at our president yesterday. Race should be, and is to most rational people under 65, a non-issue. Do I know that Obama is black, yes, do I know my employees are black, white, Thai, Nepalese, etc. Yes. Does it affect my interactions with them, yes- because each culture has mannerisms and uniqueness which should never be lost or dismissed. But does that fact affect how you evaluate a person's work, character, integrity - no, those are judged on individual merit.
Race is a fact of life, as JR said, but is it a fact used for evaluation, I would argue only by the oldest generations. I know my kids could give a rat's a** about the color of their friends skins, and if you told them that that was a reason not to be friends with someone they would be confused. Now if you say someone is of bad character-regardless of race, they would understand that.

Older (and I include myself) Americans need to get over race, it's not a reason, an excuse, or justification for any action. A person should be judged on his/her actions, and character. That was MLK Jr's dream.
A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:10 PM   #60
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Re: Obama's speech to students today

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Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

It's easy to get lost sometimes even by reasonably intelligent men. I actually had a co-worker tell me the other day he wouldn't bother hiring a black head-coach in pro-sports because when they get fired they might play the race card. He proclaims not to be racist but he found his position to be reasonable. Racism onDemand.

Last edited by saden1; 09-10-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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