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September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Old 10-05-2009, 09:41 AM   #31
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
Economics and politics are not one in the same. Ever take an economics course?
Agreed. Someone tell our elected officials.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:36 AM   #32
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
There is no real way of slicing that to make it better, the current administration is failing plain and simple.

The current administration has "failed" us by not being able to undo the work of eight years of buffoons in a mere 9 months. The GOP is almost totally to blame for this by the deregulation of the banks. Yes, a down turn was bound to happen, but it was made much worse by the shading bussiness practices that were allowed.

This economy is living proof that it is a lot easier to screw something up than it is to fix it.


However the truth is the government does not control the economy. Politicians take too much blame when it goes south and far too much credit when it turns around.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:13 PM   #33
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
The current administration has "failed" us by not being able to undo the work of eight years of buffoons in a mere 9 months. The GOP is almost totally to blame for this by the deregulation of the banks. Yes, a down turn was bound to happen, but it was made much worse by the shading bussiness practices that were allowed.

This economy is living proof that it is a lot easier to screw something up than it is to fix it.


However the truth is the government does not control the economy. Politicians take too much blame when it goes south and far too much credit when it turns around.
Who refused to deregulate the banks ? ... your banks were run by , R. Rubin , F. Raines of the clinton admin . Frank<D> and Dodd < D> were the chairmen of the Senate & Congressional finance/banking commities . Countrywide Financial / Fannie Mae were putting money into the Dems in return got subprime and CRA's ... OpenSecrets | Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers - Capital Eye hard to lay blame on GWB for what happen in the 1990's ..http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...i/Barney_Frank
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:44 PM   #34
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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For someone who supposedly has an MBA, you have a really poor understanding of economics. The President of the US and the public policy he sets has very little impact on the unemployment rate.

Since you're a fan of analogies, Obama trying to stem the surge in unemployment is akin to building a dyke out of bricks to keep out a 90-foot tsunami.

The stimulus at most could swing unemployment by half a %, and that's IF it's fully successful. But to blame the 9.8% on Obama or the stimulus is ludicrous and reeks of failure to understand economics.
So $800 billion for at most a half % unemployment rate drop? That was a good way to spend that money.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #35
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

In the end I think Obama will laregly be judged by where this number is in September/October of 2012. Everyone assumes it will come down quite a bit but there is nothing that says it has to. Look at Europe.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:44 PM   #36
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

What is the purpose of an economic stimulus?

A. Pay off supporters.
B. Build confidence in consumer and corporate spending.
C. Increase the national debt.
D. Reduce unemployment.
E. All of the above.

Please choose best answer.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:06 PM   #37
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Agreed. Someone tell our elected officials.
I'm not convinced politics and economics don't go hand-in-hand to some extent. Of course certain folks take the relationship too far in order to advantage of our economically ignorant public.

You can't have capitalism without statism.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:21 PM   #38
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
For someone who supposedly has an MBA, you have a really poor understanding of economics. The President of the US and the public policy he sets has very little impact on the unemployment rate.

Since you're a fan of analogies, Obama trying to stem the surge in unemployment is akin to building a dyke out of bricks to keep out a 90-foot tsunami.

The stimulus at most could swing unemployment by half a %, and that's IF it's fully successful. But to blame the 9.8% on Obama or the stimulus is ludicrous and reeks of failure to understand economics.
I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just curious though- Obama said the #1 goal of the stimulus is to create 3 million new jobs in two years. I don't have any figures in front of me as to how many adult Americans are unemployed currently, but I would think that if fully successful, 3 million new jobs would swing the rate by more than .5%.

Although I guess it doesn't really matter considering we're around 8 months into those 2 years and unemployment is still rising.
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:48 PM   #39
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just curious though- Obama said the #1 goal of the stimulus is to create 3 million new jobs in two years. I don't have any figures in front of me as to how many adult Americans are unemployed currently, but I would think that if fully successful, 3 million new jobs would swing the rate by more than .5%.

Although I guess it doesn't really matter considering we're around 8 months into those 2 years and unemployment is still rising.
Well let's do some rough math. 300 million american citizens, assume 60 million or so are seniors, another 60 million or so are 18 or under, that leaves 180 million. Then some won't be in the workforce for a number of reasons. So figure there are 150 million in the workforce.

Create 3 million jobs, that represents 2% of the workforce.

But then a lot of those jobs Obama is creating are not permanent ones. So while they create a total of 3 million, it doesn't count the ones that go away once a project is finished (infrastructure projects).

So figure a 1-2% improvement in unemployment, based on this very rough math. So now reflecting on it, if fully successful, it's a little better than I first thought.

But still, unemployment is at 9.8%, and if stimulus got a 2% improvement, that's still 7.8% unemployed. Historically very high. There's just nothing any administration could ever do to keep us at the 4-5% we're used to.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:34 PM   #40
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
But still, unemployment is at 9.8%, and if stimulus got a 2% improvement, that's still 7.8% unemployed. Historically very high. There's just nothing any administration could ever do to keep us at the 4-5% we're used to.
I can understand nothing can keep us at 4-5% consistently, but wouldn't lowering the corporate tax rate be fairly effective in reducing unemployment?
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:17 PM   #41
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan View Post
I can understand nothing can keep us at 4-5% consistently, but wouldn't lowering the corporate tax rate be fairly effective in reducing unemployment?
Yes. Though that would aslo cause the federal deficit to get worse.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:18 AM   #42
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

1/3 of the stimulus is tax breaks for corporations and consumers. WJ has a really nice breakdown of where the money is going.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:23 AM   #43
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

Objective:
Avoid depression, get corporations hiring people and people spending money to stimulate the business cycle thus jump starting the economy.

The Keynesian
:
In a time of deep recession reducing the corporate tax-rate alone won't necessarily give corporations incentive to hire more. You want corporations spending money in hiring people and the best way to guarantee they do is to give them government contracts.

The Monetarist
:
Government should give corporations tax cuts and expand the money supply (print money and lend it on the cheap), and then get out of the way.

The Austrian:
Do nothing. The problem will self-correct.


* Economic theories are simplified.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:50 AM   #44
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Objective:
Avoid depression, get corporations hiring people and people spending money to stimulate the business cycle thus jump starting the economy.

The Keynesian:
In a time of deep recession reducing the corporate tax-rate alone won't necessarily give corporations incentive to hire more. You want corporations spending money in hiring people and the best way to guarantee they do is to give them government contracts.

The Monetarist:
Government should give corporations tax cuts and expand the money supply (print money and lend it on the cheap), and then get out of the way.

The Austrian:
Do nothing. The problem will self-correct.


* Economic theories are simplified.
** Economic theories are not mutually exclusive of one another.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:54 PM   #45
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Re: September unemployment is 9.8 percent

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I keep hearing Obama has created jobs but no one can seem to point to any of these new jobs. If this is supose to be a stimulus then why have they only used 17% of the money. Maybe its a trickle down stimulus plan. I was against the stimulus but is your going to have a stimulus then have a stimulus.
Well it follows that if 17% of the money has been spent, then only 17% (or so) of the jobs have been created.

It will take time.
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