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Old 11-04-2009, 12:46 PM   #16
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Re: Election Day Comments

Honestly, I think last night's results were a toss up. Losing a NJ and VA were a blow to the Dems, but it's more of a media story than any clear indictment of Obama. I know people will spin it a lot of different ways, but exit polling and low voter turnout suggest otherwise.

The results in NY-23, I believe, dealt a much more damaging blow to the Republican party than either gubernatorial lost. You had the GOP establishment publicly endorse DeDe Scozzafava, only to back away from her after Sarah Palin, Fred Thompson, Tim Pawlenty and few others decided they wanted to endorse Doug Hoffman, a conservative. Hoffman, who doesn't live in the district, received less than five percent of his donations from people living in the district, nor could he answer one solid question when interviewed about the very seat he was running for, was an embarrassment to begin with.

The rest is history.

For the first time in over 100 years a Democrat holds the seat in NY-23. Mind boggling if you think about. The GOP had better figure out how to get a hold of Palin, Limbaugh and Beck fast. Sure free speech is one thing, but when you're a publicly elected official you ought to have the common sense and political savvy to stay out of local races that you know nothing about. Especially if a Republican has held the seat for over a century.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #17
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Re: Election Day Comments

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See I see that as a success for the conservatives because DeDe was more liberal then anything else but still she got the backing of the Rep. party. She had very little support of the voters and I have no idea what the Rep. party thought when they supported her. I think it sent a wake up call to the party about who they support and it was clear from the people they will not stand for that joke of a person.
Bro, that strategy is simply flawed. You can't effect policy if you're not at the table. Who gives a shit what message you're sending? DeDe probably would have won had she stayed in the race. Yeah, she's a liberal Republican, if there's such a thing. But guess what, now you guys lost the seat altogether. So how is that a positive? And if DeDe was joke, what does it say about Doug Hoffman who lost the seat for the first time in over 100 years? Fail big time.

The message here, don't meddle with local politics. The political climate of NY-23 is much different than, let's say, Dade county. You just can't apply this cookie cutter conservatism to every race accross the board and expect voters to respond because they fall into the conservative camp. It's a losing strategy. But hey, go for it.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #18
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Re: Election Day Comments

I would take a Blue Dog over any Republican. It's a hard pill but if you don't have a majority you can't implement your agenda. Hardcore Conservatives fail to see that and happy about that. Viva la stupid.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:07 PM   #19
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Re: Election Day Comments

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I would take a Blue Dog over any Republican. It's a hard pill but if you don't have a majority you can't implement your agenda. Hardcore Conservatives fail to see that and happy about that. Viva la stupid.
Name some hardcore conservative agenda items that were implemented when the Republicans were in power on a national level. I can't really think of any besides tax cuts.

I'm more than happy to have a Conservative as our Governor. You can spin it any way you want. At the end of the day we won this time.

Perhaps we can lower the business taxes and get even more of the businesses that are fleeing from the North. If we can drill off our coast we'll have cheap oil that we don't have to buy from anyone and get money back from what we sell, just like in Alaska.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:21 PM   #20
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Re: Election Day Comments

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Name some hardcore conservative agenda items that were implemented when the Republicans were in power on a national level. I can't really think of any besides tax cuts.

I'm more than happy to have a Conservative as our Governor. You can spin it any way you want. At the end of the day we won this time.

Perhaps we can lower the business taxes and get even more of the businesses that are fleeing from the North. If we can drill off our coast we'll have cheap oil that we don't have to buy from anyone and get money back from what we sell, just like in Alaska.
That's actually a good question. May ask you, what are the hardcore conservative agenda items? Outside of the social issues, I'm not familiar with many, other than tax cuts and smaller government.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #21
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Re: Election Day Comments

Smaller government means what? Defund schools, hospitals, and museums. Then spend all the surplus money on millitary contractors and police. Seems liek the same ole bigger government aka wealth redistribution to me. Instead of building the social infrastructure we send billions to millitary contractors. Find me a real contrast. Both Democrats and Republicans are socilaists, learned that from tramp (trample the elderly). both want huge deficits and bigger govermnment i.e. Ronald Reagan.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:41 PM   #22
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Re: Election Day Comments

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Name some hardcore conservative agenda items that were implemented when the Republicans were in power on a national level. I can't really think of any besides tax cuts.

I'm more than happy to have a Conservative as our Governor. You can spin it any way you want. At the end of the day we won this time.

Perhaps we can lower the business taxes and get even more of the businesses that are fleeing from the North. If we can drill off our coast we'll have cheap oil that we don't have to buy from anyone and get money back from what we sell, just like in Alaska.
None of significance because no one is as stupid as a hardcore conservatives. You will never see that agenda see daylight and reason is because no Republican is going to stick out his/her neck for it. The numbers aren't simply there and allusion to that is all smokes and mirrors. For a big country with so many tugging vested interest the idea of a small government is impossible.

You won VA, I'll give you that...NJ is a tried and true blue state so I'm not worried about that. We really won NY 23 which means Dems have one more solid blue guy in the house. Like 12thMan said, it's a toss-up.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:45 PM   #23
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Re: Election Day Comments

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Smaller government means what? Defund schools, hospitals, and museums. Then spend all the surplus money on millitary contractors and police. Seems liek the same ole bigger government aka wealth redistribution to me. Instead of building the social infrastructure we send billions to millitary contractors. Find me a real contrast. Both Democrats and Republicans are socilaists, learned that from tramp (trample the elderly). both want huge deficits and bigger govermnment i.e. Ronald Reagan.
I think there's an argument to made that both parties adhere to socialist tenets more than they are willing to admit.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:53 PM   #24
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Re: Election Day Comments

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None of significance because no one is as stupid as a hardcore conservatives. You will never see that agenda see daylight and reason is because no Republican is going to stick out his/her neck for it. The numbers aren't simply there and allusion to that is all smokes and mirrors. For a big country with so many tugging vested interest the idea of a small government is impossible.

You won VA, I'll give you that...NJ is a tried and true blue state so I'm not worried about that. We really won NY 23 which means Dems have one more solid blue guy in the house. Like 12thMan said, it's a toss-up.
Your liberal agenda has again clouded your vision.

United States presidential election, 1980 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States presidential election, 1984 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No other president has won like this in recent history.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:27 PM   #25
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Re: Election Day Comments

It's worth noting that we won two seats last night. One in Cali and the one in NY-23. The Dems also plucked the mayoral race in Charlotte, N.C. last night.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:29 PM   #26
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Re: Election Day Comments

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Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan View Post
Smaller government means what? Defund schools, hospitals, and museums. Then spend all the surplus money on millitary contractors and police. Seems liek the same ole bigger government aka wealth redistribution to me. Instead of building the social infrastructure we send billions to millitary contractors. Find me a real contrast. Both Democrats and Republicans are socilaists, learned that from tramp (trample the elderly). both want huge deficits and bigger govermnment i.e. Ronald Reagan.
Yes, you are right. Smaller Federal government means getting rid of the Department of Education. Seeing how they're doing such a wonderful job now, I'm all for it. I don't see why it's the tax payer's responsibility to fund "Art"?

I'm not too sure about government run hospitals. I wouldn't say VA hospitals have a great reputation from all of the news lately, but I think this has been corrected for the most part. Some are the best in the world from what I've heard.

Yes, both parties are militaristic. Both parties use our military to advance the agenda of Corporate America.

I would disagree on the local level. Many local politicians disavow themselves from their national party, yet reap the rewards or penalties of having a D or an R next to their name. They have to get results.

On the Federal level they're nothing but pigs at a trough. You don't hear the left screaming about the war now that Jorge Bush is out of office. That's because they're getting that contractor money now. Most of them don't give a shit about American soldiers.

I didn't like Tim Kaine as my governor nor did I like Mark Warner. Both though were alright at their jobs. Tim Kaine is very different as the governor than he is as the head of the DNC. He cuts and dodges the liberal agenda when he speaks to us. He knows he'd piss off the public and ruin the chances for the next D.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:29 PM   #27
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Re: Election Day Comments

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Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly View Post
Your liberal agenda has again clouded your vision.

United States presidential election, 1980 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States presidential election, 1984 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No president has won like this in recent history.
He did raise taxes out of necessity and spent a shit load on his war toys without actually paying for them...that's really hard core conservative agenda without the fiscal restraint and limited government part. You're not walking, you're crawling. You should know better, being on your knees is conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:49 PM   #28
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Re: Election Day Comments

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He did raise taxes out of necessity and spent a shit load on his war toys without actually paying for them...that's really hard core conservative agenda without the fiscal restraint and limited government part. You're not walking, you're crawling. You should know better, being on your knees is conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
What you said was, "that no one could run and win on Conservative principles". You are wrong. Someone did, and won by landslides. Congress controls spending. Reagan's Congress was Democratic. Clinton didn't get to put in his commie agenda. His Congress was Republican.

Name some expensive toys Congress didn't pay for. The last time I checked the Missouri was taken out of moth balls. SDI was never implemented? At the time the US and the USSR were reducing their nuclear stock piles?

You're a real piece of work Saden. You liberals sure are a hateful breed.
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:02 PM   #29
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Re: Election Day Comments

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What you said was, "that no one could run and win on Conservative principles". You are wrong. Someone did, and won by landslides. Congress controls spending. Reagan's Congress was Democratic. Clinton didn't get to put in his commie agenda. His Congress was Republican.

Name some expensive toys Congress didn't pay for. The last time I checked the Missouri was taken out of moth balls. SDI was never implemented? At the time the US and the USSR were reducing their nuclear stock piles?

You're a real piece of work Saden. You liberals sure are a hateful breed.
Why do conservatives constantly hearken back to the Reagan era to prove their point about the enduring quality of conservative principles. Reagan was for his time. Lincoln was for his time. So forth and so on. Today we live in a completely different climate. Demographically the country has evolved and continues to do so. The globe has changed for that matter. Politics are more interconnected and simply require more compromise on some key issues. I guess what I'm saying is the world isn't as black and white as it was, say, twenty or thirty years ago.

My main issue if with Republicans, and some liberals for that matter, they tend to view the world in terms of absolutes. They don't debate shades of grey, only black and white.
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:17 PM   #30
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Re: Election Day Comments

And let me say that Reagan's magic wasn't his policies. It was his ability to listen to the other side. He didn't give conservatism a bad name. He was a respectful man and honored the office. Sure he made some missteps, but every president does.

Where do you think Blue Dog Dems originated from? It was Reagan. Yet today they identify with and caucus with Democrats. Modern day Republicans and conservatives found no room for them in the party.
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