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The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Old 05-05-2010, 01:25 PM   #46
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Are you talking about Contessa Brewer, because what she said was:

There was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country because there are a lot of people who want to use this terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way, or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way, Brewer said Tuesday during a radio interview with host Stephanie Miller. I mean, they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry.

So, there was part of me really hoping this would not be the case, that here would be somebody who is not that defined, she continued. I mean, hes accused, hes arrested, you know, I dont want to convict him before its time to do so. Hes the guy authorities say is involved. But that being said, I mean, we know even in recent history you have the Haitari militia from Michigan who have plans to, lets face it, create terror.

Read more: Rush Limbaugh, Contessa Brewer terror comments ripped - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

Maybe you want to call that insane, twisted thinking but then what do you call this?

Of course, hes a Democrat. Who knows how many times he voted and where, Limbaugh said. I would love if this guy were a member of ACORN.
Comments like this from Hannity and Rush are just to stir the pot. Every time the pot stirs their wallets grow. I don't even think they beleive i nhalf the crap they spew they just want deeper pockets.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:04 PM   #47
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

Speaking of Rush did you hear he suggested that environmentalists bombed that oil rig in order to sabotage the oil companies?

I thought he was leaving the country already.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:07 PM   #48
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Speaking of Rush did you hear he suggested that environmentalists bombed that oil rig in order to sabotage the oil companies?

I thought he was leaving the country already.

Perfect example there is no way he believes they should do that but he says it for shock value.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:15 PM   #49
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

first, what is the difference between trying them as criminals, or enemy combatants? isn't the end result the same? i know one is tried in civilian court. and the other in military court. is that the only difference?
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:26 PM   #50
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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first, what is the difference between trying them as criminals, or enemy combatants? isn't the end result the same? i know one is tried in civilian court. and the other in military court. is that the only difference?

well i dont know all the legalese... but i dont care what you call them. just charge them with something, make them aware of the charges, and then have a real trial. i dont think that's coddling them. everyone should have due process. most of these guys can/would be easily convicted and locked away. and then the ones you hear about being held from age 14-19 with no charges and no contact with family cuz they threw a rock or some shit... they can be let go.

imagine if an american was held overseas indefinitely with no charges/trial, etc...
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:40 PM   #51
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

Did we ever close the Gitmo detention camps? I know we did move a lot out, but don't remember any finality.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:52 PM   #52
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Did we ever close the Gitmo detention camps? I know we did move a lot out, but don't remember any finality.
Shhhhhh....we want everyone to forget about that place.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:06 PM   #53
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
first, what is the difference between trying them as criminals, or enemy combatants? isn't the end result the same? i know one is tried in civilian court. and the other in military court. is that the only difference?
There is a big difference between criminal and enemy combatant. A criminal is allowed a trial by jury, complete with a competent lawyer, and the evidential standards are high. Military tribunals, on the other hand, do not contain a real jury, can be held without representation for the defense, and standards of evidence are ridiculously low. Criminal trials attempt to deliver real justice; military tribunals are essentially kangaroo courts.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:12 PM   #54
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

I really tried my best just to read through the posts and move on, but I just want to say a few things and let it be.

Firstdown
, a few of your assertions are just flat out off base. One of the chief criticisms of President Obama's foreign policy is that it's not a radical departure from Georg Bush. In fact, except for some changes to the interrogation techniques and the personnel actually conducting the interrogation, most people on the right, and I've said this before, have no problem with how he's executing the war on terror and more broadly his foreign policy.

As far as the usage of the word enemy combatants v. the word terrorist v. criminal, I don't know. He called this last guy a terrorist for what it's worth. But these guys aren't stopping because we choose to use one word vs the other, and I'm 100% certain they don't give a shit whether a Democrat or Republican is in the White House. We tend to cast these aspersions and question who's more patriotic and who's tougher on war, but terrorists just want to inflict massive damage and kill tens of thousands, if not millions of innocent Americans. So can we put to rest this argument that Obama is not tough (contrary to tons of evidence) and his predecessor was a bad ass. The fact that we've had something like 3 prosecutions in military tribunals vs. nearly 300 in a civilian courts should be an indication of how tough it is to get an actual conviction in military court. So again, the issue isn't whether we call them enemy combatants or terrorists or anything else, but where are we most likely to get a conviction. And regardless of your politics, our civilian courts have been overwhelmingly successful at putting these bastards away for life!

Buster, a simple question - What is Obama doing different from Bush or any other president in terms of giving rights when and where needed to terrorists according to the rule of law? As far as this recent incident, how do you suppose we get around the Constitution and try an American citizen as a terrorist and not read him his rights where there's no precedent for it?
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:17 PM   #55
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Did we ever close the Gitmo detention camps? I know we did move a lot out, but don't remember any finality.
It's not closed yet, but there's a good chance most of them get re-located to a facility in Illinois that's operating well below capacity.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:20 PM   #56
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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It's not closed yet, but there's a good chance most of them get re-located to a facility in Illinois that's operating well below capacity.
I think they'd rather stay in Gitmo!



Man that's a snarky line, better used on Ohio or Montana.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:22 PM   #57
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
I think they'd rather stay in Gitmo!



Man that's a snarky line, better used on Ohio or Montana.

Yeah, it's a shame we spent all that coin on that facility and will shut it down. I'm all for the reasons, but what a waste.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:30 PM   #58
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I really tried my best just to read through the posts and move on, but I just want to say a few things and let it be.

Firstdown
, a few of your assertions are just flat out off base. One of the chief criticisms of President Obama's foreign policy is that it's not a radical departure from Georg Bush. In fact, except for some changes to the interrogation techniques and the personnel actually conducting the interrogation, most people on the right, and I've said this before, have no problem with how he's executing the war on terror and more broadly his foreign policy.

As far as the usage of the word enemy combatants v. the word terrorist v. criminal, I don't know. He called this last guy a terrorist for what it's worth. But these guys aren't stopping because we choose to use one word vs the other, and I'm 100% certain they don't give a shit whether a Democrat or Republican is in the White House. We tend to cast these aspersions and question who's more patriotic and who's tougher on war, but terrorists just want to inflict massive damage and kill tens of thousands, if not millions of innocent Americans. So can we put to rest this argument that Obama is not tough (contrary to tons of evidence) and his predecessor was a bad ass. The fact that we've had something like 3 prosecutions in military tribunals vs. nearly 300 in a civilian courts should be an indication of how tough it is to get an actual conviction in military court. So again, the issue isn't whether we call them enemy combatants or terrorists or anything else, but where are we most likely to get a conviction. And regardless of your politics, our civilian courts have been overwhelmingly successful at putting these bastards away for life!

Buster, a simple question - What is Obama doing different from Bush or any other president in terms of giving rights when and where needed to terrorists according to the rule of law? As far as this recent incident, how do you suppose we get around the Constitution and try an American citizen as a terrorist and not read him his rights where there's no precedent for it?

good post, thanks.

even "liberals" like Glenn Greenwald constantly hammer obama with criticism on the fact that he is just like Bush as far as not giving due process/fair trials to these guys.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:59 PM   #59
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I really tried my best just to read through the posts and move on, but I just want to say a few things and let it be.

Firstdown
, a few of your assertions are just flat out off base. One of the chief criticisms of President Obama's foreign policy is that it's not a radical departure from Georg Bush. In fact, except for some changes to the interrogation techniques and the personnel actually conducting the interrogation, most people on the right, and I've said this before, have no problem with how he's executing the war on terror and more broadly his foreign policy.

As far as the usage of the word enemy combatants v. the word terrorist v. criminal, I don't know. He called this last guy a terrorist for what it's worth. But these guys aren't stopping because we choose to use one word vs the other, and I'm 100% certain they don't give a shit whether a Democrat or Republican is in the White House. We tend to cast these aspersions and question who's more patriotic and who's tougher on war, but terrorists just want to inflict massive damage and kill tens of thousands, if not millions of innocent Americans. So can we put to rest this argument that Obama is not tough (contrary to tons of evidence) and his predecessor was a bad ass. The fact that we've had something like 3 prosecutions in military tribunals vs. nearly 300 in a civilian courts should be an indication of how tough it is to get an actual conviction in military court. So again, the issue isn't whether we call them enemy combatants or terrorists or anything else, but where are we most likely to get a conviction. And regardless of your politics, our civilian courts have been overwhelmingly successful at putting these bastards away for life!

Buster, a simple question - What is Obama doing different from Bush or any other president in terms of giving rights when and where needed to terrorists according to the rule of law? As far as this recent incident, how do you suppose we get around the Constitution and try an American citizen as a terrorist and not read him his rights where there's no precedent for it?
It's disgusting to hear senators and congressmen say we shouldn't mirandize a US Citizen and even worse revoke their citizenship before they're convicted. It is as if the Constitution isn't good enough for them or marginally good enough when it suites them.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:13 PM   #60
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Re: The "almost" Times Square Bomb

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I guess you have not sat in a court room in some years. Lady places hot coffee in lap gets burn and wins millions. Guy climbs up shelving in store and win millions. Etc....
Actually 3 weeks ago I went to a lecture by a military intelligence officer whose job is to fight terrorism. My post above reflects what he told me face-to-face after the lecture.

edit: Specifically, I went to a lecture by Mr. Tom Parker, who has taught counterterrorism at the Defense Institute for International Legal Studies, Yale University, and Bard College. He was a counterterrorism official for the British government and has taught counterterrorism techniques in various countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia.
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Last edited by Lotus; 05-05-2010 at 10:55 PM.
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