The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.

firstdown · 08-18-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Excessive acceleration is against traffic code in many areas.. not sure about where they're at. It could also be grouped into the category of "careless driving/operation of vehicle."

I've never really heard the you have the right to approach the speed limit as quickly as you'd like defense. Of course this is all assuming that they were still under the limit.

Its a freaking different country so maybe the right lane was the fast lane there.

tryfuhl · 08-18-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its a freaking different country so maybe the right lane was the fast lane there.

common sense should tell you to not differ from your surroundings at such a rate regardless of your country

don't tell me you guys have never watched a video on youtube being filmed from a car having a lil fun out there

JoeRedskin · 08-18-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I think that the car did mostly what it could've done given the circumstances. I think that they also contributed to the circumstances however.

How? By accelerating in an open lane of traffic? It's not like they were still in the accident zone - they were clearly past it. You can feel however you want about it, but I just don't see any facts that back up your opinion.

You conceed that:
Driver was not exceeding speed limit;
Driver began braking as soon as he was presented by the scooter guys move;
Scooter guy braked after switching lanes;
Driver did all he could do to avoid the accident.

What facts support the position that the driver contrib'd? The only thing you've said is that he was travelling faster than traffic around him which, in an open lane of traffic, he is free to do especially when he is not exceeding the speed limit.

over the mountain · 08-18-2010, 03:19 PM

last clear chance to avoid an accident. if this driver was driving at or below the posted speed limit then he should have had enough time to brake safely.

there is also the issue of contributory neg if this was in MD.

also, considering the circumstances of why traffic was slowed or stopped, accelerating in that situation wasnt the smartest decision.

honestly to me it looked like the driver knew the scooter guy was coming over but didnt want to slow down, choosing to get up on his ass and try and close the window, then when the scooter guy braked, collision occurred.

i mean, who wants a freakin scooter changing lanes in front of you when you lane is clear for take off?

Mattyk · 08-18-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over the mountain

last clear chance to avoid an accident. if this driver was driving at or below the posted speed limit then he should have had enough time to brake safely.

there is also the issue of contributory neg if this was in MD.

also, considering the circumstances of why traffic was slowed or stopped, accelerating in that situation wasnt the smartest decision.

honestly to me it looked like the driver knew the scooter guy was coming over but didnt want to slow down, choosing to get up on his ass and try and close the window, then when the scooter guy braked, collision occurred.

i mean, who wants a freakin scooter changing lanes in front of you when you lane is clear for take off?

Well said, good post

tryfuhl · 08-18-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

How? By accelerating in an open lane of traffic? It's not like they were still in the accident zone - they were clearly past it. You can feel however you want about it, but I just don't see any facts that back up your opinion.

You conceed that:
Driver was not exceeding speed limit;
Driver began braking as soon as he was presented by the scooter guys move;
Scooter guy braked after switching lanes;
Driver did all he could do to avoid the accident.

What facts support the position that the driver contrib'd? The only thing you've said is that he was travelling faster than traffic around him which, in an open lane of traffic, he is free to do especially when he is not exceeding the speed limit.

I did not concede* that the driver was not exceeding the speed limit. Lot of words you're putting in there for me.

Ultimately when it comes down to 1 vs 2 (2 being the scooter) it would get written as 2's fault.

Again, we're still assuming that the speed limit was being followed. You can be cited for accelerating/endangerment, etc without exceeding the speed limit.

JoeRedskin · 08-18-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Excessive acceleration is against traffic code in many areas.. not sure about where they're at. It could also be grouped into the category of "careless driving/operation of vehicle."

I've never really heard the you have the right to approach the speed limit as quickly as you'd like defense. Of course this is all assuming that they were still under the limit and that everyone else was just going painstakingly slowly following the previous incident.

Sorry, I just think we are going to have to disagree that his acceleration was "excessive". He passed a some trucks and a bus. Not clear evidence of excessive to me.

It's not that he has the right to approach the speed limit "as quickly as he would like to". It's that, from the video, other than passing a few trucks, nothing shows him accelerating in a reckless manner. He does have the absolute right to accelerate to speed without unexpected, unsignaled obstructions.

Mattyk · 08-18-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Everything reasonable - which means he doesn't have to put his or anyone else's life in danger. Could he have swerved? maybe. But if he goes right, what if scooter continues that way? Could he swerve left? dunno, maybe scooter guy goes that way to avoid, or there is a car approaching from behind. He was presented with an unreasonable and unexpected condition by scooter guy. He can't alter the time space continuim to stop on a dime and he doesn't have to be omniscient so that he can know what jerk move the scooter guy will do next.

I'll give you 95-5 but not much more than that - and only that grudgingly.

He didn't need to swerve, he just needed to be a little less lackadaisical with the brakes. Unless he had someone right on his ass, he could/should have slammed on the brakes harder.

Does it really appear to you that he did everything he could to stop?

Mattyk · 08-18-2010, 03:26 PM

I think we need to toss the speed limit out the window, if he was driving too fast for the current conditions on the road, it doesn't matter if he was breaking the limit or not.

tryfuhl · 08-18-2010, 03:26 PM

Going back it seems as if the vehicle did not brake as soon as he should have, hard to say not being in the incident though.

You've seriously got to be messing with me on the acceleration part. Was traffic defense part of your early lawyer days? Can you step outside of your thinking and even believe what you're saying?

Schneed10 · 08-18-2010, 03:27 PM

It was me. I was just trying to stop the guy from speeding but my scooter's bark is bigger than its bite.

JoeRedskin · 08-18-2010, 03:28 PM

I guess I disagree. Quite frankly, a jury in baltimore city would probably agree with you. As I had a case similar to this in Talbot County, I would say a Maryland Eastern Shore judge would disagree with you - he found no contrib by the driver of Car B when Car A cut him off, even though two witnesses said Car B was driver faster than the speed limit.

I would love to see the actual stopping distance of the driver in this case 'cause it just doesn't appear that he took all that long to stop to me.

tryfuhl · 08-18-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I think we need to toss the speed limit out the window, if he was driving too fast for the current conditions on the road, it doesn't matter if he was breaking the limit or not.

thanks! exactly what I was trying to say, though in not as effective words

I was nice enough to tailor my argument on the ASSUMPTION that the speed limit was being followed while something that is painfully obvious was ignored/shot down

tryfuhl · 08-18-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneed10

it was me. I was just trying to stop the guy from speeding but my scooter's bark is bigger than its bite.

lol!

over the mountain · 08-18-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Driver began braking as soon as he was presented by the scooter guys move;

Scooter guy braked after switching lanes;

Driver did all he could do to avoid the accident.

What facts support the position that the driver contrib'd? The only thing you've said is that he was travelling faster than traffic around him which, in an open lane of traffic, he is free to do especially when he is not exceeding the speed limit.

IMO the driver began braking when he realized that the scooter had established himself in the drivers lane. also did the driver slam on the brakes (do everyhting he could to avoid a collision) or did he ease up on the brakes just enough to slow down but still be right up on the scooters ass?

you just conceeded that the scooter guy was in the lane, if he is established in the lane then the car driver behind him must keep a reasonable and safe amount of distance in front of him to avoid striking other vehicles that may brake. the person doing the rear ending are presumed to be at fault b/c you should be keeping a safe distance and look-out for suddenly stopping vehicles in front of you.

this looks like what you see on the roadway all the time minus the collision.

a car has a clear lane ahead of him, driver sees another vehcile attempting to enter into his lane and also enjoy the clear lane, driver doesnt want to concede any ground or have anyone cut in front of him so he tries to close the window and not allow the other driver in. if the other driver does slip thru the window then the driver stays on his ass to prove a point of "hey you almost kinda cut me off".

if that car you riding its ass decides to brake while your doing your best impression of a uhaul trailer, a collision occurs and your insurance company comes a calling.

08-18-2010, 03:19 PM	#34
over the mountain Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: baltimore Posts: 2,668	Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay. last clear chance to avoid an accident. if this driver was driving at or below the posted speed limit then he should have had enough time to brake safely. there is also the issue of contributory neg if this was in MD. also, considering the circumstances of why traffic was slowed or stopped, accelerating in that situation wasnt the smartest decision. honestly to me it looked like the driver knew the scooter guy was coming over but didnt want to slow down, choosing to get up on his ass and try and close the window, then when the scooter guy braked, collision occurred. i mean, who wants a freakin scooter changing lanes in front of you when you lane is clear for take off? __________________ Fails to lock onto the defender, at times, preferring to violently shove his target to the ground and look for others.

08-18-2010, 03:26 PM	#39
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,656	Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay. I think we need to toss the speed limit out the window, if he was driving too fast for the current conditions on the road, it doesn't matter if he was breaking the limit or not. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-18-2010, 03:26 PM	#40
tryfuhl Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Waldorf, MD Age: 29 Posts: 12,512	Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay. Going back it seems as if the vehicle did not brake as soon as he should have, hard to say not being in the incident though. You've seriously got to be messing with me on the acceleration part. Was traffic defense part of your early lawyer days? Can you step outside of your thinking and even believe what you're saying? __________________ http://www.twitter.com/RedskinsRT

08-18-2010, 03:27 PM	#41
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,892	Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay. It was me. I was just trying to stop the guy from speeding but my scooter's bark is bigger than its bite. __________________ Skins' Salary Cap Status \| CrazyCanuck's Cap Figures by Player \| Salary Cap 101

08-18-2010, 03:28 PM	#42
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 50 Posts: 7,144	Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay. I guess I disagree. Quite frankly, a jury in baltimore city would probably agree with you. As I had a case similar to this in Talbot County, I would say a Maryland Eastern Shore judge would disagree with you - he found no contrib by the driver of Car B when Car A cut him off, even though two witnesses said Car B was driver faster than the speed limit. I would love to see the actual stopping distance of the driver in this case 'cause it just doesn't appear that he took all that long to stop to me. __________________ My Little Pony: Friendship is magic? or ... a repressive matriarchal society where individuals' roles are defined by their immutable physical characteristics and governance is reserved for those who demonstrate the genetic purity of the pony master race?

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