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Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Old 10-06-2010, 03:47 PM   #31
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Except - per the article you sited - the victim offerred to pay for the cost of the fire company's expense. Not just the missed $75 fee.

I get the whole "gotta pay the fee, dude" but, as Schneed said, they are just sitting there watching burn while the owner is offering to pay the full cost of the expense. If he is willing to obligate himself to that - fine.

I am conflicted. On one hand I get the hard line - if the fireman break the rules and start putting out the fire, all sorts of liability issues not to mention the potential economic pitfalls (many opt out with the thought they can pay if needed, etc.). On the other, there is just a wrongness to watching something burn when the means to put it out are at hand and absolutely available.
Per the article the offer to pay the fee was after the the fact. Suppose I were to offer my home insurance company my annual fee after my house burned down? As a business would you take my offer? No. Now the guy did offer to pay wherever it costs to put out the fire but what assurances do I have the guy is going to pay? His only know collateral is on fire. Not worth the risk.

If everyone offered to pay the expense of putting out the fire after their house is on fire you wouldn't have a fire department.

We are free to choose and the Fire Fighters made the right business choice. This is a teachable moment.

Last edited by saden1; 10-06-2010 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #32
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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A firefighters opinions on the South Fulton incident
South Fulton Firefighters: A Disgrace To The Uniform?
Well said. Its an insane story
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:58 PM   #33
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

Did Buster and Saden switch accounts in this thread? Seriously I'm confused. :cheeky-sm

At the end of the day we're talking about a measly $75. They seriously let someone's house burn down over $75? As a society you've gotta just ask WTF are we doing?

What's next? Police not responding if you haven't paid a fee?
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #34
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Did Buster and Saden switch accounts in this thread? Seriously I'm confused. :cheeky-sm

At the end of the day we're talking about a measly $75. They seriously let someone's house burn down over $75? As a society you've gotta just ask WTF are we doing?

What's next? Police not responding if you haven't paid a fee?
I got my free market hat on.

If you're planning on beating on your wife best make sure you haven't paid the police fee.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #35
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Is that the common sense that tells you "those who paid get service" or "put it out even if someone hasn't paid?"
Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat.

I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.
They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street.
AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill.
I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:23 PM   #36
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat.

I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.
They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street.
AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill.
I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?
So they should put out the fire because they are already there and it feels right? What's will you say next? A doctor should see me because I showed up his clinic? The Pharmacy should give me free drugs because it's in my grocery store?


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Old 10-06-2010, 04:24 PM   #37
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat.

I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.
They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street.
AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill.
I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?

Id second that...if it was my dog, you'd probably be reading about how I guy killed the fire chief after letting his house burn down
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:51 PM   #38
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

Apples and oranges FD.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:56 PM   #39
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

It's a slippery slope. Those usage fees are obviously a big part of their funding, and they only responded to help the homeowner who did pay. If that gentleman who paid the fees hadn't called, the fire department wouldn't have responded at all.

While it's a damn shame that Mr. Cranick lost his possessions and pets, if the fire department puts this fire out, the precedent would be set that they would have to serve all those who didn't pay as well, or risk lawsuit. The flip side of the coin would be what if a firefighter had lost his life fighting this fire? Would his widow(er) be denied insurance benefits because they were not authorized to put out this fire?

The correct answer isn't always the best answer or the most moral answer.
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:13 PM   #40
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

I hope they write an article about me when I forget to pay a car payment and the car get's repo'd!!!!!
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:23 PM   #41
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Would you expect you auto ins. co. to pay your auto claim if your policy went out for non payment the month before?
It's no secret that what Marxist like him really want is a socialized Fire Department with the ability to place a lien on your property if you fail to pay your dues. They're not fooling anybody, we all know that is their end goal,
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #42
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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The guy live in a county that has no fire dpt. so the other county provides fire dpt. services for a fee and the didn't pay. The link I provided the guys said he thought they would provide service even if he didn't pay the fee. Semms like he got what he paid for. Nothing I have read says any about the time line of events so maybe by the time they responded to the neighbor who paid the fee it was too late to help the guys dogs.
This is the type of thing where you punish people with fees after the fact. That's your incentive to pay. Make it 10 to 15 times the amount of the yearly service fee. Charge him a fine in the range of $750-$1125. Put a lein on the house of people who don't pay, take it out of their pay check. Do what you have to do to collect the fee. Don't sit there and watch a persons place burn down with his pets inside.

The fire department will be sued. Every lawyer within a 1,000 miles of South Fulton Tennessee is going to want a piece of the settlement that will result from this. The assault charges will be dropped. In the end the fire department looks like idiots in a country where fireman are rightfully deemed real life super heroes.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:51 PM   #43
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

Saden why do I get the feeling you're not being totally genuine in your posts on this thread?

Dirtbag I agree, levy the heavy fines and fees after the fact
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:00 PM   #44
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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Saden why do I get the feeling you're not being totally genuine in your posts on this thread?

Dirtbag I agree, levy the heavy fines and fees after the fact
Why do you doubt my rational? Do I not make any sense?

Speaking of fines and fees....any of you guys ever forget to pay your semi-annual water and sewage treatment fee to your city? I have. Instead of letting me deal with my own water and sewage acquisition and disposal the f'ing city placed a lien on my property! It cost me $400 with interest and fees. That's big government for you.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:31 PM   #45
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Re: Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee

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This is the type of thing where you punish people with fees after the fact. That's your incentive to pay. Make it 10 to 15 times the amount of the yearly service fee. Charge him a fine in the range of $750-$1125. Put a lein on the house of people who don't pay, take it out of their pay check. Do what you have to do to collect the fee. Don't sit there and watch a persons place burn down with his pets inside.

The fire department will be sued. Every lawyer within a 1,000 miles of South Fulton Tennessee is going to want a piece of the settlement that will result from this. The assault charges will be dropped. In the end the fire department looks like idiots in a country where fireman are rightfully deemed real life super heroes.
This doesn't work necessarily.

Imagine this becomes the SOP. So what happens? Now people get to basically decide whether to pay the fee or risk having to pay umpteen more in fines/interest/whatever if they have a fire. Let's say it's a lot. Like 100X the fee...so $7500.

Now how many people pay the fee? None? Some? Who knows but I'd bet a good many of them don't pay their fee. As luck would have it most of them won't have a fire but if just one in a hundred does then the whole deal is all square monetarily. But what if only one in thousand do? Now the county is out a bunch of money. Seems to me that the fines/interest have to be significant...to the point of prohibitive. I am guessing a guy living in a double-wide in a poorish rural county doesn't have the juice to pay $20,000 in fines.

This is definitely not a simple moral question to me. On one hand you can't simply make it policy to provide a service whether someone paid for it or not. Regardless of the nature of the service the leverage to actually collect a fee for the service disappears as soon as you set precedent that the fee is essentially voluntary. On the other hand it obviously doesn't seem right that someone loses their home because of a stupid $75 fee. I guess sometimes fair and right aren't the same thing.
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