Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=Mattyk;854882]What about Grossman is smart?

This Rex/Beck debate sure is getting comical.[/quote]

We passed the "getting comical" mark a looooong time ago. Now it's like watching two idiots argue about whether pig wrestling ought to be in the Olympics - Sure, at first it's funny to hear their earnest advocacy of something stupid, but after a while it's just, well, stupid.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

I think people like CB59 probably voices what many people think or believe inside. I think some of the reasons for such stereotype is due to the following:

1) Blacks on average score lower on SAT tests than whites (and other standardized tests)
[url=http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1998/spring_education_jencks.aspx]The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done - Brookings Institution[/url]

2) Blacks are viewed as better athletes than whites generally.

My guess is many people view the black quarterback as one who's superior athletically, but lacks the intelligence to develop into a complete quarter back. We also see a good deal of kids coming from broken homes and bad environments that do lack the education and proper upbringing, which also feeds the stereotypical picture of the black athlete.

I think the problem with the "athletic" quarterback starts long before college even rolls around. Even from the time of middle/high school, these kids generally are better athletes than the guys around them. Coaches then have them use those skills to win games instead of teaching them the true fundamentals and form. As long as the coaches are winning games, they don't care if his fundamentals/form are there. Otherwise, a guy like Tim Tebow doesn't go through 4 years of college without having his mechanics changed. Urban Meyer didn't give a shit about his mechanics because Tebow was running all over the place.

For guys like Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that simply wasn't a option. They had to focus more on the form of passing to elevate their game at the position, and having a NFL QB as a dad probably helped with the instruction from as a small child.

For me, it's different. I don't think Cam Newton is a dummy because he's black. I think Cam Newton is a dummy because he had to cheat in Florida to get by with academics. Watching his interview with Jon Gruden made me cringe. I also think Tim Tebow is a dummy as well and he's white. They say Wonderlic scores aren't a good gauge, but I say otherwise.

Bottom line, I think the most important qualities for a NFL quarterback to have is:

1) Intelligence
2) Accuracy
3) Reaction time (progression reads/quick release)

Sure having a big gun and fast wheels makes for a great combo as well, but we've seen QBs become Hall of Famers without those two traits. In the end, we need to take away the color from a player and focus on their strengths and weaknesses. They are all unique and vary from person to person, regardless of their color.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/02/phil-simms-not-sold-on-andrew-luck/]Phil Simms not sold on Andrew Luck | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=NC_Skins;855002]I think people like CB59 probably voices what many people think or believe inside. I think some of the reasons for such stereotype is due to the following:

1) Blacks on average score lower on SAT tests than whites (and other standardized tests)
[url=http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1998/spring_education_jencks.aspx]The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done - Brookings Institution[/url]

2) Blacks are viewed as better athletes than whites generally.

My guess is many people view the black quarterback as one who's superior athletically, but lacks the intelligence to develop into a complete quarter back. We also see a good deal of kids coming from broken homes and bad environments that do lack the education and proper upbringing, which also feeds the stereotypical picture of the black athlete.

I think the problem with the "athletic" quarterback starts long before college even rolls around. Even from the time of middle/high school, these kids generally are better athletes than the guys around them. Coaches then have them use those skills to win games instead of teaching them the true fundamentals and form. As long as the coaches are winning games, they don't care if his fundamentals/form are there. Otherwise, a guy like Tim Tebow doesn't go through 4 years of college without having his mechanics changed. Urban Meyer didn't give a shit about his mechanics because Tebow was running all over the place.

For guys like Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that simply wasn't a option. They had to focus more on the form of passing to elevate their game at the position, and having a NFL QB as a dad probably helped with the instruction from as a small child.

For me, it's different. I don't think Cam Newton is a dummy because he's black. I think Cam Newton is a dummy because he had to cheat in Florida to get by with academics. Watching his interview with Jon Gruden made me cringe. I also think Tim Tebow is a dummy as well and he's white. They say Wonderlic scores aren't a good gauge, but I say otherwise.

Bottom line, I think the most important qualities for a NFL quarterback to have is:

1) Intelligence
2) Accuracy
3) Reaction time (progression reads/quick release)

Sure having a big gun and fast wheels makes for a great combo as well, but we've seen QBs become Hall of Famers without those two traits. In the end, we need to take away the color from a player and focus on their strengths and weaknesses. They are all unique and vary from person to person, regardless of their color.[/quote]

THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.


BACK to the board discussion. One guy I keep forgetting about is Case Keenum. The guy is pretty accurate and is experienced. I just don't know how mobile he is for shanahans offense.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;855046]THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.
[/quote]

I'm quite sure what I said and what you said are completely different. I expounded to people where you got your racial stereotype from in regards to black QBs. I simply refute that color should even be a factor when talking about QBs. It plays no part in the discussion really.

Cult, there's no justification for what you said. What is there to refute? and in fact, there have been posts refuting your claim. Like I said before, if you can't understand what's wrong (not just morally, but factually) with saying black QBs basically get by on being fast and not because of their football IQ, then you have no business being on this board. Take your ignorance elsewhere. The mods have agreed to allow you to reconsider and retract your statement. I strongly advise that you do.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;854883]Just a reminder where it all started:

[URL="http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/80344/black_quarterback_pioneer_remembering.html?cat=14"]Black Quarterback Pioneer: Remembering James Harris - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com[/URL]

In addition to his skill on the field, the guy was instrumental in assembling the successfull Ravens & Jaguars teams of the 2000's. I would suggest he has a little "Football IQ".[/quote]
I forget all about James Harris and I always think of Doug....Sorry James! He was quite a revelation at the time.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=Hog1;855069]I forget all about James Harris and I always think of Doug....Sorry James! He was quite a revelation at the time.[/quote]

Joe Gilliam for the Steelers was pretty good, except get got into drugs and ruined his career

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=SmootSmack;855067] with saying black QBs basically get by on being fast [/quote]


Somebody forgot to give that memo to Byron Leftwich. :laughing-

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;855046]THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.


BACK to the board discussion. One guy I keep forgetting about is Case Keenum. The guy is pretty accurate and is experienced. I just don't know how mobile he is for shanahans offense.[/quote]

Well in that case, I prefer a black president because none of them have been assassinated.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;855036][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/02/phil-simms-not-sold-on-andrew-luck/]Phil Simms not sold on Andrew Luck | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

What a racist.

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;855073]Well in that case, I prefer a black president because none of them have been assassinated.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant!

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;855103]What a racist.[/quote]
Well.....he is kinda' pasty...you know suspicious looking...

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

Getting more impressed with RGIII the more I read about him. I didn't realize that he was 6'2 215lbs, I thought he was closer to 6 even. Plus apparently the kid is brilliant, he is going to already graduate w/ a masters degree and will enroll part time in law school next year if he doesnt leave for the draft. For the sake of the Skins I hope he does leave.

1. Luck
2. Barkley
3. Foles/RGIII to me are even.

Those would be my top 4 qbs on my big board going into the 2012 nfl draft. IF we got any 1 of those 4 I would be pretty dang happy. Not sold on Landry Jones for some reason as a pro bowl caliber qb.

Re: 2012 QB Class
 

Cult, I am not going to say you're a racist, but you definitely just "came out" as being prejudiced. You're prejudging all black quarterbacks based on the color of their skin. While you state indisputable facts relating to the race and success of quarterbacks, you don't recognize the factors contributing to those facts. Black quarterbacks aren't inherently "football stupid." Due to the number of high school and college coaches with prejudices like yourself, fewer black athletes get the opportunity to play quarterback. It's assumed that they are better suited to play wide receiver, running back, defensive back, etc so that's where their coaches play them. The black athletes who do get the opportunity are often forced into playing a mold of the "athletic qb" and are never really developed into being prototypical passers... All because of prejudice. Please quit with the prejudicial comments.