Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=firstdown;1002485]Probably because it does not get reported because nothing will be done. Women can actually cause themself more problems if they report abuse. Also in the US what we call abuse is very broad. If I grab my wife to get her attention (not something I'd do) and left a mark what so ever its called an assult. In the middle east they would laugh at you.[/quote]

Abuse is not widely reported here either. Abuse of women is a global epidemic, men will justify it by religion, their upbringing, stress at their jobs, whatever. The excuses are different, but the underlying fact is that there are assholes everywhere. Abuse of women is just as prevalent here as it is everywhere else.

I commend you for treating your wife well. You would be surprised to know hundreds of thousands of American men don't. I'm not trying to defend a demonic religion. My only point in all my posts is that the average afghan Islamic man is no more of an asshole than half the men in any of our neighborhoods. There are extreme afghan Islamic men that are horrific assholes. And there are extreme white male Christian men who are also horrific assholes. Abuse of women us a global problem that transcends race, religion, and nationality. It's not fair to judge a society by a couple of assholes. If we did that, then we'd all be assholes. Judging an entire group of people, based on th actions of a minority, isn't right, it's morally abhorrent and goes against everything we should stand for as citizens.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002588] Judging an entire group of people, based on th actions of a minority, isn't right, it's morally abhorrent and goes against everything we should stand for as citizens.[/quote]

That's where you are wrong. It's not a minority.

We all agree that treating anyone in a dehumanizing way everyone is worse off. Religion has built in excuses for abhorrent behavior.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1002624]That's where you are wrong. It's not a minority.

We all agree that treating anyone in a dehumanizing way everyone is worse off. [B]Religion[/B] has built in excuses for abhorrent behavior.[/quote]

Dont get me started on religion. For thousands of years, assholes have used religion to justify all sorts of horrible things. The Catholic Church and Islam have more blood on their hands than any other organizations/governments in the history of mankind. Anyone with a brain who beleives in a benevolent God of some sort could easily recognize that he/she/it would abhor both organizations. Anway, back on topic.

Where I think you are wrong is in your belief that the majority of Muslims condone the sort of behavior we've been talking about in this thread. They dont. Just like the majority of Christians in this country dont condone waving "god hates fags" flags and soldiers funerals. The fact is, the majority of Muslims in the world view the extremists who torture women the same way the majority of Christians view the Westboro Baptist church. That said, i think its obvious that those muslim extremists are even more heinous than the WBC.

On a side note, Moslem is an offensive, perjorative term for Muslims. In Arabic, "Muslim" means "one who gives himself to God." "Moslem" means "one who is evil and unjust." Its a big difference, so most Muslims would take issue with being called "Moslems."

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002628]Dont get me started on religion. For thousands of years, assholes have used religion to justify all sorts of horrible things. The Catholic Church and Islam have more blood on their hands than any other organizations/governments in the history of mankind. Anyone with a brain who beleives in a benevolent God of some sort could easily recognize that he/she/it would abhor both organizations. Anway, back on topic.

Where I think you are wrong is in your belief that the majority of Muslims condone the sort of behavior we've been talking about in this thread. They dont. Just like the majority of Christians in this country dont condone waving "god hates fags" flags and soldiers funerals. The fact is, the majority of Muslims in the world view the extremists who torture women the same way the majority of Christians view the Westboro Baptist church. That said, i think its obvious that those muslim extremists are even more heinous than the WBC.

[B]On a side note, Moslem is an offensive, perjorative term for Muslims. In Arabic, "Muslim" means "one who gives himself to God." "Moslem" means "one who is evil and unjust." Its a big difference, so most Muslims would take issue with being called "Moslems."[/B][/quote]

interesting link on the difference from George Mason University
[url]http://hnn.us/articles/524.html[/url]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

BHA, always be wary of 'decent' people in large groups who just follow along.

I will be sticking with 'moslem', it seems apropos.

But on the topic of pronunciation and spelling: [URL="http://ask.metafilter.com/35958/Potato-potahto-Muslim-Moslem"]This[/URL]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1002653][B]BHA, always be wary of 'decent' people in large groups who just follow along.[/B]
I will be sticking with 'moslem', it seems apropos.

But on the topic of pronunciation and spelling: [URL="http://ask.metafilter.com/35958/Potato-potahto-Muslim-Moslem"]This[/URL][/quote]

If you want to continue to use that term, fine. its just not PC and would piss off most muslims. However, it seems you want to piss them off so keep showing your prejudice. It just disturbs me because people with attitudes like yours is the reason so many people in eastern countries hate the US. You want the rest of the world to conform to your personal ideals instead of being respectful of cultural differences. Relationships between cultures will never improve unless both sides are willing to show eachother dignity.

That being said, i would be interested in your expanding on your first statement (bolded). Your point (in relation to this discussion) is not clear to me.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002695]If you want to continue to use that term, fine. its just not PC and would piss off most muslims.[/quote]

No, I'm not PC. I dislike that there's an attempt at moral equivalency.

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002695]However, it seems you want to piss them off so keep showing your prejudice.[/quote]

I have no respect for those groups.

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002695]It just disturbs me because people with attitudes like yours is the reason so many people in eastern countries hate the US. You want the rest of the world to conform to your personal ideals instead of being respectful of cultural differences. Relationships between cultures will never improve unless both sides are willing to show eachother dignity. [/quote]

They hated us before we even knew they hated us. There's a lot of hate built into most (not all) religious doctrine, that's part of how it expands.

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002695]That being said, i would be interested in your expanding on your first statement (bolded). Your point (in relation to this discussion) is not clear to me.[/quote]

Religion (large groups) gets a pass because it's people's 'faith' and it should be respected. Why, then, do you supposed good people allow their designated group to do vile things?

Look at Western Europe and how religion is ebbing away in the face of education. It won't be long before society treats people of faith like slow children.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this topic, I know it's not popular with most people. So, thanks.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1002702]No, I'm not PC. I dislike that there's an attempt at moral equivalency.

I have no respect for those groups.[/quote]

I have no respect for the WBC or islamic militants or any other hateful organization, but i do have respect for the majority of individual muslims and christians who are generally "good" people. Thats where i think you and i arent seeing eye to eye. You think everyones an Level 10 asshole. I think 90% of people are level 1 Assholes and you shouldnt judge all the the Assholes level 10 just because a few of them are.

[quote=]They hated us before we even knew they hated us. There's a lot of hate built into most (not all) religious doctrine, that's part of how it expands.

Religion (large groups) gets a pass because it's people's 'faith' and it should be respected. Why, then, do you supposed good people allow their designated group to do vile things?[/quote]

I agree with everything you say here, but i think you "align" yourself with Western/Christian people when Western/Christian people are just as responsible for building a culture of intolerance and hate.


[quote]Look at Western Europe and how religion is ebbing away in the face of education. It won't be long before society treats people of faith like slow children.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this topic, I know it's not popular with most people. So, thanks.[/quote]

I'm confident that religion as we know it will be outlawed globally by the UN at some point. I beleive in a Creator, but i also beleive that religions who claim to represent him are responsible for for the vast majority of human suffering. The roots of almost every conflict in history can be traced to religion. Even when religion isnt the direct source of the conflict, it often contributes to it. Do you really think hundreds of millions of men would have killed eachother in WWII if they werent told God was on their sides?

Re: All things Middle East related
 

All I do is judge people on what [I][U]they[/U][/I] do. Not even what they say they'll do, although if they kill in the name of their <[I][U]fill_in_the-blank[/U][/I]> then I'm forewarned they may just do it again.

I am more aligned with Humanists and freethinkers than any Western Christian group.

Unfortunately, the quickest way to encourage a huge religious revival would be the UN (another deplorably corrupt group) banning religion.

As far as religion being toxic, Amen!* People love to tout Nazi's as Atheists yet they had Gott Mitt Uns on their belt buckles and knives. It just looks better on the scorecard.

A Creator? Ok, you lost me.

*[COLOR="White"]Kidding[/COLOR]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

The UN is going to ban religion?
Thats some serious tin foil hat looney talk.....

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1002717](snip)[/quote]BHA, from trying to equate this society with sharia law muslim countries that explicitly discriminate against women, to the UN taking away a basic right people do have whether they abuse it or not (freedom of religion). I agree with AlvinWalton, BHA your posts are insane!

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1002726]... As far as religion being toxic, Amen! People love to tout Nazi's as Atheists yet they had Gott Mitt Uns on their belt buckles and knives. It just looks better on the scorecard.[/quote]

Ehh, I just stick with the Marxists, Maoist and Khmer Rouge - plenty to run up the tally. No need to add in the Nazis, they have their own little niche of crass pandering to popular religion while actually seeking anything but traditional Christianity [In [I]Inside the Third Reich[/I], Albert Speer intimated that Hitler felt that Islam was more aligned with Nazi philosophy than traditional western Christianity].

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1002732]BHA, from trying to equate this society with sharia law muslim countries that explicitly discriminate against women, to the UN taking away a basic right people do have whether they abuse it or not (freedom of religion). I agree with AlvinWalton, BHA your posts are insane![/quote]

I'm not advocating the UN do it, but with religion behind so many of the worlds problems, it seems a logical next step. At some point, they're going to just say "F@ck all you crazy people spewing hate - enough already." I mean, aside from extremists, who really cares anymore anyway. Does ANYONE go to church?

Re: All things Middle East related
 

LOL....the UN isnt going to do squat....FFS

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1002754]LOL....the UN isnt going to do squat....FFS[/quote]

Considering they generally just sit idly by while genocide goes on, you have a point. I guess my main point was that these big religous organizations are responsible for for so much bigotry and hatred. Sooner or later, people will see them for what they are and realize they are a roadblock to peaceful relations.

I'm not arguing that Islam as a whole doesnt promote discrimination against women, becuase it does. But it doesnt teach [B]violence [/B]against women - thats just the extremists.