Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Starting Brunell against the Texans is starting to make sense but Campbell must get a few snaps whether it be because we are winning by a considerable margin or losing by a more than two scores with less than two minutes. If Brunell struggles, Campbell is our best hope. He needs game speed reps as quickly as possible.

HELP!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I don't know if it means anything coming from him but Tony Kornheiser quoted Joe Gibbs in saying that our two backup QB's (Campbell and Collins) are worse than Brunell.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;217418]He's prone to inaccuracy. So is McNabb, but people love him. It's a relatively harmless flaw in his game that when pressured in the pocket he throws low.[/quote]

The difference with McNabb and Brunell, actually there's no comparison,
is that McNabb can compensate for his deficiencies. Whereas, when Brunell is off, his mistakes are magnified.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm sure you can draw parallels between McNabb and Brunell at the same point in time. McNabb seems to be a more fiery competitor, though.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;217453]I'm sure you can draw parallels between McNabb and Brunell at the same point in time. McNabb seems to be a more fiery competitor, though.[/quote]


Hmmmm....I suppose, but there is certainly no comparison right now.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217455]Hmmmm....I suppose, but there is certainly no comparison right now.[/quote]

Moooooost definitely!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=cowboykiller89;217437]I don't know if it means anything coming from him but Tony Kornheiser quoted Joe Gibbs in saying that our two backup QB's (Campbell and Collins) are worse than Brunell.[/quote]

Tony K is a jackass!! Im sure Gibbs would not flat out say they are worse. Maybe he said they needed more prep in order to get the job done. Campbell, although he would throw more INT's, would put on a show with his laser rocket arm.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho;217460]Tony K is a jackass!! Im sure Gibbs would not flat out say they are worse. Maybe he said they needed more prep in order to get the job done. Campbell, although he would throw more INT's, would put on a show with his laser rocket arm.[/quote]

That's fo' sho'!

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=12thMan;217443]The difference with McNabb and Brunell, actually there's no comparison,
is that McNabb can compensate for his deficiencies. Whereas, when Brunell is off, his mistakes are magnified.[/quote]McNabb definately has playmaking potential that Brunell no longer has this late in his career. All I'm saying is that if periodic accuracy issues were really that damning, McNabb would have busted out years ago.

They aren't, and consequently I'm happy with a QB that completes 60% and throws a pick every two games. Both McNabb and Brunell are firery competitors, even though Donovan's carelessness (among other things) probably cost Phili a win Sunday.

Brunell is almost not to blame at all for either of our losses...although I'd really like to see an improvement from him on third down.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

It's easy to say someone completes 60% of their passes and throws only a few picks, but you have to remember to look at the yards per completion. You also have to look at the amount of TD passes thrown. Brunell has GOT to make plays. I'll take an extra INT here and there if he'll take a few more chances. I've been a big supporter of him, but he's really got to turn this around and prove he can make these throws.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

WELL thats exactly what i am saying. Having said that (you would take and extra INT) wouldnt you rather Campbell in there??? Im sure he would throw 1-2 more pics a game but probably 3 more TD's as well!!

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;217463]McNabb definately has playmaking potential
Brunell is almost not to blame at all for either of our losses...although I'd really like to see an improvement from him on third down.[/quote]

Id like to see him throw it to someone other than a RB!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Actually, I don't think I'll mind him throwing it to Portis.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Throw it to whoever will move the chains!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;217475]Actually, I don't think I'll mind him throwing it to Portis.[/QUOTE]
I won't mind either, until he starts doing it constantly because he won't look down field for long enough to hit a WR.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I really wish Lloyd would get more looks rather than five yard outs, I think he's starting to get frustrated.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I must say though, Brunell is looking like the same guy from year one. Only looking for specific guys. I saw PATTEN open on a few patterns and of course he looks for Moss or Cooley and that's it.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;217481]I really wish Lloyd would get more looks rather than five yard outs, I think he's starting to get frustrated.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing yesterday. From everything I hear about his time in San Fran, we don't want him frustrated in the Skin's locker room.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

To be quite honest...im afraid of everyone getting frustrated!!! ST, BL, SM, AR-El. It sucks when you put up that much of an effort, clean up your game, and do not get a single flag(ST) and it appears as if you are the only one playing. He and Marcus are the backbones of this defense, although im sure you can make an argument for CG. But i really would hate to see any of those players frustrated with the team!! ( Randel-el has the coolest initials ever!)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

i'm patient, give him one more week. he needs to throw the ball downfeild a quarterback should average at least ten yards for every completion

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Dont know if anyone has posted this yet, but haha!

[url=http://www.bangcartoon.com/cartoons/index.cfm/fa/viewcartoon/cartoon/2004Archive%7Cpassingfancy.swf]Cartoons | Bang Cartoon[/url]

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=GMScud;217404]I am really tired of having to deal with bitching about the quarterback position. We have a constant carousel year in and out, controversies year in year out, and discussions like one pretty much on a consistent basis. Never shoulda let Brad Johnson go....[/quote]

I'm tired of it too, and I think most people are. That's the main reason I think people are calling for the change. We have Blind Faith in Joe Gibbs' asessment of Jason Campbell, and the fact that we threw 2 first round picks at his feet and see him as our answer and the QB of our future. We're hoping that he can end all of the BS QB contraversey we've been seeing around here for so long now.

Rothlesburger got put into his situation in his first year and the second he took his team all the way.

I'm hoping J/C is on par with him as far as game management and utilizing the weapons he has around him, especially seeing what we gave up to get him.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Matty, I have a problem. I must give my two cents in all the MB threads, no matter how dumb they are. That old bastard is consuming my life!

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;217492] We have Blind Faith in Joe Gibbs' asessment of Jason Campbell, and the fact that we threw 2 first round picks at his feet and see him as our answer and the QB of our future.[/QUOTE]

Joe Gibbs has a pretty good track record at assessments of QBs. Although he doesn't find the Joe Montanas or the Brett Farves of the NFL, he finds the players who are willing to work within the system in order to win and it's worked for him -- 3 different Super Bowl quarterbacks. I think the only difference right now is that those quarterbacks were not afraid to throw it deep -- which is what truthly made Joe Gibbs' offense ultimately successful. We talk about his running game, but teams back in the day also had to worry about the posse' and a QB who wasn't afraid to throw it deep to Clark, Sanders, and Monk.

I've seen Mark throw and I believe he can throw it deep --- but for some reason, he doesn't have the confidence to do so. In garbage time, when it didn't matter either way, he was making those throws to Moss. I realize that the defense was playing prevent...but I still believe Mark can make those passes if he'd try. Probably what is frustrating for the WRs is that Mark probably does make those passes in practice, but wants to play too conservative in the game.

Re: Benching Brunell may not be the answer.
 

[quote=canthetuna;217492]I'm tired of it too, and I think most people are. That's the main reason I think people are calling for the change. [B]We have Blind Faith in Joe Gibbs' asessment of Jason Campbell, and the fact that we threw 2 first round picks at his feet and see him as our answer and the QB of our future[/B]. We're hoping that he can end all of the BS QB contraversey we've been seeing around here for so long now.

Rothlesburger got put into his situation in his first year and the second he took his team all the way.

I'm hoping J/C is on par with him as far as game management and utilizing the weapons he has around him, especially seeing what we gave up to get him.[/quote]
we gave up 1 1st round pick and like 3rd and 4th

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I look forward to the day, no matter have far off, when we have a QB who makes things happens and wins games for his team (think Michael Vick or either Manning brother) instead of one who merely "manages the game."

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

unfortunately Brunell, whether we like it or not, gives us the best chance to win right now. if we put Campbell in, that signals we are accepting the building process that goes along with that. Danny has thrown too much money for that to happen. Plus, Gibbs is not and does not want to rebuild. he wants to win now. If we put Campbell in, you, me, and everyone else has to know that we are going to struggle just as much, if not more. JC does not have the kind of grasp of the offense needed to make the difference everyone thinks he will. We dont have the luxery of the Titans who aren't expected to do a damn thing. We are expected to compete for a playoff spot, and deeper in the playoffs. The two defenses we were playing flat out did not respect our running game. They played two safeties deep and dared us to run, taking away the deep ball and the balls across the middle. The fact is, we didn't or couldn't run the ball worth shit. The one posession where Portis was in the game against Minnesota, we moved the ball down the field, spreading it out to Moss, Cooley, Randel El, then Portis ran the ball in for the TD. I think we all need to give Brunell a little slack. Lets wait until Portis actually plays a whole game and lets see where we are. We all know what Al does when he has his #1 guy in the game. LJ or Priest would carry the ball 20 to 25 time a game. When the would creep the safeties up, that is when he would make them pay with play action or the deep routes. Lets see what we do against a good team when Portis is playing before calling for Brunells head to be cut off and placed at mid field.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I bet if we start Campbell without Portis back there to block for him (Betts can't block like Portis) and he got hurt, you'd all want Gibbs fired.

I still believe this uprising is WAY too early.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=#56fanatic;217555]unfortunately Brunell, whether we like it or not, gives us the best chance to win right now. if we put Campbell in, that signals we are accepting the building process that goes along with that. Danny has thrown too much money for that to happen. Plus, Gibbs is not and does not want to rebuild. he wants to win now. If we put Campbell in, you, me, and everyone else has to know that we are going to struggle just as much, if not more. JC does not have the kind of grasp of the offense needed to make the difference everyone thinks he will. We dont have the luxery of the Titans who aren't expected to do a damn thing. We are expected to compete for a playoff spot, and deeper in the playoffs. The two defenses we were playing flat out did not respect our running game. They played two safeties deep and dared us to run, taking away the deep ball and the balls across the middle. The fact is, we didn't or couldn't run the ball worth shit. The one posession where Portis was in the game against Minnesota, we moved the ball down the field, spreading it out to Moss, Cooley, Randel El, then Portis ran the ball in for the TD. I think we all need to give Brunell a little slack. Lets wait until Portis actually plays a whole game and lets see where we are. We all know what Al does when he has his #1 guy in the game. LJ or Priest would carry the ball 20 to 25 time a game. When the would creep the safeties up, that is when he would make them pay with play action or the deep routes. Lets see what we do against a good team when Portis is playing before calling for Brunells head to be cut off and placed at mid field.[/quote]

PERFECT POST. :food-smil

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=#56fanatic;217555]unfortunately Brunell, whether we like it or not, gives us the best chance to win right now. if we put Campbell in, that signals we are accepting the building process that goes along with that. Danny has thrown too much money for that to happen. Plus, Gibbs is not and does not want to rebuild. he wants to win now. If we put Campbell in, you, me, and everyone else has to know that we are going to struggle just as much, if not more. JC does not have the kind of grasp of the offense needed to make the difference everyone thinks he will. We dont have the luxery of the Titans who aren't expected to do a damn thing. We are expected to compete for a playoff spot, and deeper in the playoffs. The two defenses we were playing flat out did not respect our running game. They played two safeties deep and dared us to run, taking away the deep ball and the balls across the middle. The fact is, we didn't or couldn't run the ball worth shit. The one posession where Portis was in the game against Minnesota, we moved the ball down the field, spreading it out to Moss, Cooley, Randel El, then Portis ran the ball in for the TD. I think we all need to give Brunell a little slack. Lets wait until Portis actually plays a whole game and lets see where we are. We all know what Al does when he has his #1 guy in the game. LJ or Priest would carry the ball 20 to 25 time a game. When the would creep the safeties up, that is when he would make them pay with play action or the deep routes. Lets see what we do against a good team when Portis is playing before calling for Brunells head to be cut off and placed at mid field.[/quote]

We can't say with certainty that the team will struggle with JC in there until JC actually get's in there.

It's all speculation at this point. And given the current offensive production, system or no, the drop off wouldn't be that dramatic if at all.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Would we all agree that it is in everybodys best interest to get Campbell in there at some point this season? If we lose 2 out of the next 3 games and the offense still looks like crap, then what? Put Campbell in then? IMO if they put him in now, we dont lose that much from the qb position, and we will probably be in the same position with a losing record, but Campbell needs to play eventually.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

with all that being said......i will be the first one in line at the crow eating contest if MB suddenly finds the fountain of youth.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217570]We can't say with certainty that the team will struggle with JC in there until JC actually get's in there.

It's all speculation at this point. And given the current offensive production, system or no, the drop off wouldn't be that dramatic if at all.[/quote]


its all speculation that Brunell will struggle as much with Portis in the game as much as he does with out him. Until we have the most valuable piece of this offense on the field, its unfair to blame Brunell. Look at KC, fortunately they had LJ in the wings waiting, but there offense was geared around the RB. same as when he was in St. Louis. Faulk was the man. the WR and offense just doesn't move the same unless the #1 piece is in the huddle. In our case it is Portis. I wont judge anything from this game if Portis is playing because its Houston. I want to see the whole product on the field against Jacksonville. But, I think they can use Houston as a confidence builder (if in fact we play well)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;217555]If we put Campbell in, you, me, and everyone else has to know that we are going to struggle just as much, if not more. JC does not have the kind of grasp of the offense needed to make the difference everyone thinks he will. [/QUOTE]

if JC struggled just as much, at least he'd be learning the offense for the future. if he struggled more, it'd still apply. do we really want Brunell to learn this offense for his 36yr old future? cuz "winning now" looks FAR from happening.

hurts to think how much JC would've grasped this offense if he took ALL the practice snaps with the first team during this year's (oh-so-productive) off/pre-season.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=#56fanatic;217582]its all speculation that Brunell will struggle as much with Portis in the game as much as he does with out him. Until we have the most valuable piece of this offense on the field, its unfair to blame Brunell. Look at KC, fortunately they had LJ in the wings waiting, but there offense was geared around the RB. same as when he was in St. Louis. Faulk was the man. the WR and offense just doesn't move the same unless the #1 piece is in the huddle. In our case it is Portis. I wont judge anything from this game if Portis is playing because its Houston. I want to see the whole product on the field against Jacksonville. But, I think they can use Houston as a confidence builder (if in fact we play well)[/quote]

I don't think you can put Brunell's inefficiency on Portis missing in the backfield. No doubt, Portis is a huge part of our offense - huge! However, Brunell couldn't get the ball to his receivers, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. Brunell floated the ball and never took it deep, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. He often scrambled into the pass rush or his release was either late or too early, nothing to do with Portis behind the QB.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Stacks42;217491]Dont know if anyone has posted this yet, but haha!

[URL="http://www.bangcartoon.com/cartoons/index.cfm/fa/viewcartoon/cartoon/2004Archive%7Cpassingfancy.swf"]Cartoons | Bang Cartoon[/URL][/quote]

:laughing2

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;217579]with all that being said......i will be the first one in line at the crow eating contest if MB suddenly finds the fountain of youth.[/quote]

Dude, line me up for that Crow burger. In fact, Offiss can be the Chef and serve the first meal:)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217590]I don't think you can put Brunell's inefficiency on Portis missing in the backfield. No doubt, Portis is a huge part of our offense - huge! However, Brunell couldn't get the ball to his receivers, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. Brunell floated the ball and never took it deep, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. He often scrambled into the pass rush or his release was either late or too early, nothing to do with Portis behind the QB.[/quote]

He can't get the ball to the receivers because the defenses KNOW we can't run the ball and are playing pass on every play. They're also sending blitzes because they aren't buying the playactions...and they shouldn't. Extra coverage and a pass rush that is sure they're going to get the the QB is not an easy thing to overcome for ANYONE. Add in that Betts can't block and that's a nightmare for Brunell. Saunders wanted to go deep, but Brunell didn't have the time to wait for the receivers to get downfield AND get open in double-coverage.

Proof - SIX sacks by Dallas, would've been a couple more if Brunell hadn't ducked and ran away from a few.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217590]I don't think you can put Brunell's inefficiency on Portis missing in the backfield. No doubt, Portis is a huge part of our offense - huge! However, Brunell couldn't get the ball to his receivers, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. Brunell floated the ball and never took it deep, that's not a function of Portis not lining up behind you. He often scrambled into the pass rush or his release was either late or too early, nothing to do with Portis behind the QB.[/quote]


I will say this : When teams purposely take the deep passing game from teams, which minnesota and Dallas both did, we have to be able to run the ball. Running the ball effectively brings a safety or two towards the line of scrimmage, which in turn opens more plays down the field. If a team can sit in a 2 deep coverage the entire game you will NOT be able to throw down field. and the one time he did, what happened, it was picked, BY THE SAFETY. No one thinks Betts can run the ball. If a team can control the running attack with the front 6 or 7, the deep passing game will not exist. Betts couldn't run, the line couldn't run block, what ever happened, it goes hand and hand.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Buster;217598]He can't get the ball to the receivers because the defenses KNOW we can't run the ball and are playing pass on every play. They're also sending blitzes because they aren't buying the playactions...and they shouldn't. Extra coverage and a pass rush that is sure they're going to get the the QB is not an easy thing to overcome for ANYONE. Add in that Betts can't block and that's a nightmare for Brunell. Saunders wanted to go deep, but Brunell didn't have the time to wait for the receivers to get downfield AND get open in double-coverage.[/quote]

Ummm....I'll buy some of that. Look, blitz or not, he's been largely ineffective. QBs get blitzed all the time, man. They adjust in the pocket, take the hit and complete the damn ball. If he did this occasionally, it would be a good thing.