Re: WFT Free Agency
 

"Highest paid" is always hust a PR thing that far too many players are concerned with, it may be the length of the contract or the guarantees that are the real issue. He was always likely to reset the market but for a guy that gets injured as much as he does, it isn't worth the cap hit if it means losing other young talent down the road. I would have thought there would have been whispers if he was being made available for trade. If they draft a guard this year that will tell us a lot, but I am a little concerned that it appears the team is leaking this out after RR was questioned about it a couple of days ago.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1280842]"Highest paid" is always hust a PR thing that far too many players are concerned with, it may be the length of the contract or the guarantees that are the real issue. He was always likely to reset the market but for a guy that gets injured as much as he does, it isn't worth the cap hit if it means losing other young talent down the road. I would have thought there would have been whispers if he was being made available for trade. If they draft a guard this year that will tell us a lot, [B]but I am a little concerned that it appears the team is leaking this out after RR was questioned about it a couple of days ago.[/B][/quote]

We're far from BA having press conf to tell the world what incredible offer Cousins turned down... but yeah I agree the timing makes one wonder.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Like a recent article mentioned, If they were to give him a four or five-year contract, now or previously, they would still have had to pay around the same money ($33 million) in fully guaranteed funds that they are now, but they would also be stuck with massive salaries or a significant dead cap hit if they wanted to move on.

The alternative was to let him walk this year. I'm glad we have him for one more year...

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

The highest salary is also debatable point, did they offer him $1 more than the previous high, $15m ish I think, which is understandable that he may refuse, or is he looking for $18m+ pa. The fact that they didn't tell JK the number on the offer makes me think it was the former, so there may still be chance to meet in the middle at about $17m pa. Which like it or not will be the number for an allpro guard. Bear in mind Zach Martin just got an $18m pa extension, but Scherff is no Zach Martin ( injuries and does get beaten in pass protection occaisionally)

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1280847]The highest salary is also debatable point, did they offer him $1 more than the previous high, $15m ish I think, which is understandable that he may refuse, or is he looking for $18m+ pa. The fact that they didn't tell JK the number on the offer makes me think it was the former, so there may still be chance to meet in the middle at about $17m pa. Which like it or not will be the number for an allpro guard. Bear in mind Zach Martin just got an $18m pa extension, but Scherff is no Zach Martin ( injuries and does get beaten in pass protection occaisionally)[/quote]

Agreed 100%. On the 2 knocks, and on the fact I'd be ok with Scherff long term at 17M/yr. My issue is a big cap hit with no future.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Just like Cousins. Said all the right things but showed no genuine interest in making it work when it came time to negotiate. He didn’t want to be here, not much more complicated than that. So time to let him go in 2022.

He’ll get one of the biggest contracts next season which will lead to a 3rd round comp pick for us in 2023, assuming that at that point we’re focused on signing our own guys and not on bringing in FAs from the outside.

Good Gs can be had in the 2nd round of any draft. I think this saves the team from possibly making a mistake. He’ll play extremely hard this year as he always does, trying to earn that big deal in 2022.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Schneed10;1280851][B]Just like Cousins. Said all the right things but showed no genuine interest in making it work when it came time to negotiate.[/B] He didn’t want to be here, not much more complicated than that. So time to let him go in 2022.

He’ll get one of the biggest contracts next season which will lead to a 3rd round comp pick for us in 2023, assuming that at that point we’re focused on signing our own guys and not on bringing in FAs from the outside.

Good Gs can be had in the 2nd round of any draft. I think this saves the team from possibly making a mistake. He’ll play extremely hard this year as he always does, trying to earn that big deal in 2022.[/quote]

This x 1000. Just like I think Cousins is a little rat and I hope he never wins jack, Scherff will be added to this list as well.

I don't even want Scherff back after this year. Hopefully he plays well for his own selfish purposes, so the team can benefit 1 more year. Then replace him with Ismael or draft/sign his replacement.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1280851]He’ll get one of the biggest contracts next season which will lead to a 3rd round comp pick for us in 2023, assuming that at that point we’re focused on signing our own guys and not on bringing in FAs from the outside.



Good Gs can be had in the 2nd round of any draft. I think this saves the team from possibly making a mistake. He’ll play extremely hard this year as he always does, trying to earn that big deal in 2022.[/QUOTE]

That's why I'm thinking the team should look to see if there would be a team who would trade for him. I think there's a chance we will sign a player to a big contract next off-season, which will offset the 3rd round comp pick. This is probably likely if we don't have a good draft this year (i.e., LB or LT).

Even if a team offers an early 3rd round pick for him, I would take it. I think we can find a starter on day 2 of draft.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

So what would that trade even look like? Scherff for a 3rd, and they pick up the $18M FT salary?

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1280864]So what would that trade even look like? Scherff for a 3rd, and they pick up the $18M FT salary?[/QUOTE]I would assume the team will want to sign Scherff to a long term contract right after the trade.

Obviously it would take a few things to fall together to make this happen. I just think we would be better off trying to get something for Scherff than hoping that we would get a 3rd round comp pick next year.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I think they did what they had to do. The choices were let him walk for nothing, or FT him. At least he's on the team for one more year.

I don't see anyone trading for him at this point.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1280873]I think they did what they had to do. The choices were let him walk for nothing, or FT him.[B] At least he's on the team for one more year.[/B]

I don't see anyone trading for him at this point.[/quote]

I hear that, and I'm not saying it's the worst move ever, but I would have rather signed a c[I][U]heap stop gap RG and/or drafter a future replacement[/U][/I] + have those 18M [I][U]cap space available for a year where we're really gonna contend[/U][/I]... but then again this offseason looks more and more like next year isn't that much of a "rebuild/3 to 5 years process" season, so the tag may ending up making more sense than I think now.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Is it possible BS is waiting for next years cap to go up where he thinks he can get more upfront than this year? I am thinking no. It is not like we are in cap difficulty right now so we could make it as enticing as we can, so I leaning toward the he is going to walk next year.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1280890]Is it possible BS is waiting for next years cap to go up where he thinks he can get more upfront than this year? I am thinking no. It is not like we are in cap difficulty right now so we could make it as enticing as we can, so I leaning toward the he is going to walk next year.[/QUOTE]Yea, this was his year to get paid by the WFT with a long term deal. The space was there, seemingly the desire by the team was there. Not sure why it couldn't get done, but I can't imagine anything changing significantly to benefit BS' negotiation position.

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

We could have had

TE Hunter Henry
G Thuney or Zeitler or Trai Turner or many other starting level Gs
3r comp

Instead we get an injury prone G who is taking up 18M in cap space all in 1 year

I understand you dont let high level homegrown players walk ... but Scherff is like maybe the 6th or 7th best G in the game and fuck him if he wants to over value himself

We are letting a G dictate to us.

Hes a guard. If we knew he wasnt going to resign with us .. then let him walk now vs next year.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=SunnySide;1280901]We could have had

TE Hunter Henry
G Thuney or Zeitler or Trai Turner or many other starting level Gs
3r comp

Instead we get an injury prone G who is taking up 18M in cap space all in 1 year

I understand you dont let high level homegrown players walk ... but Scherff is like maybe the 6th or 7th best G in the game and fuck him if he wants to over value himself

We are letting a G dictate to us.

Hes a guard. If we knew he wasnt going to resign with us .. then let him walk now vs next year.[/quote]

Yup. And we could start C we signed or Charles at G for no add'l money. Horrible decision. RG is lowest leverage position of entire starting 22. I still say in a draft deep with Ts smart play would have been let Scherff walk and draft a mauler T that you plug to G right away. Except I think our FO may be drafting 1-2 LBs with first 4 picks.

And I still say it was about the guarantees, overall and injury, rather than the total contract value. Scherff knows he can't stay healthy and wants a sucker to be on the hook for guaranteed money if he's injured.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=SunnySide;1280901]We could have had

TE Hunter Henry
G Thuney or Zeitler or Trai Turner or many other starting level Gs
3r comp

Instead we get an injury prone G who is taking up 18M in cap space all in 1 year

I understand you dont let high level homegrown players walk ... but Scherff is like maybe the 6th or 7th best G in the game and fuck him if he wants to over value himself

We are letting a G dictate to us.

Hes a guard. If we knew he wasnt going to resign with us .. then let him walk now vs next year.[/quote]


Hunter Henry is way more injury prone than Scherff is

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=SunnySide;1280901]We could have had



TE Hunter Henry

G Thuney or Zeitler or Trai Turner or many other starting level Gs

3r comp



Instead we get an injury prone G who is taking up 18M in cap space all in 1 year



I understand you dont let high level homegrown players walk ... but Scherff is like maybe the 6th or 7th best G in the game and fuck him if he wants to over value himself



We are letting a G dictate to us.



Hes a guard. If we knew he wasnt going to resign with us .. then let him walk now vs next year.[/QUOTE]How is he the 6th or 7th best yet first team all pro. People so underestimate Scherff because he is on our team already and we see his faults more clearly.

It's a shame he doesn't want a long term deal but the difference in salary cap vs quality of next man up was not enough for this FO to justify letting him go yet. Given he is a staple to our offense and they inherited his situation, I get them not wanting to just cut ties.

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281226]How is he the 6th or 7th best yet first team all pro. People so underestimate Scherff because he is on our team already and we see his faults more clearly.

It's a shame he doesn't want a long term deal but the difference in salary cap vs quality of next man up was not enough for this FO to justify letting him go yet. Given he is a staple to our offense and they inherited his situation, I get them not wanting to just cut ties.

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Agreed.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1281221]Hunter Henry is way more injury prone than Scherff is[/quote]

Reed 2.0. We've seen that show.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281226]How is he the 6th or 7th best yet first team all pro. People so underestimate Scherff because he is on our team already and we see his faults more clearly.

It's a shame he doesn't want a long term deal but the difference in salary cap vs quality of next man up was not enough for this FO to justify letting him go yet. Given he is a staple to our offense and they inherited his situation, I get them not wanting to just cut ties.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

All-Pro team selected by journalists, not GMs or players or other people actually playing the game or building teams. Grades by groups like PFF often diverge sharply from All-Pro selections. All-Pro is a vanity entertainment award, not an analytic. So saying Scherff All-Pro doesn't mean he is necessarily top-2 at position, especially not in eyes of professional evaluators.

Next man up is $17M a year less. Yeah, they inherited, that doesn't mean they managed it properly.

Let's say he's 2nd best. No way is he better than Quenton Nelson, who is an absolute beast. I would not call it absurd to put him past 6th, he is a mauler run game, good moving in space to run block, but gets blown up on pass protection WAY too much--reason he was moved to G in first place, and there are LOTs of good mauling run blocker Gs. But again, let's even suppose he is better than Quenton Nelson or as good, which he isn't. Nelson has been in league 3 years, has been a 1st team All-Pro all three years, Pro Bowl all three years, and started all 48 games. Hasn't missed a single game. When his rookie deal expires he'll be in prime, having been absolute best at his position every year, with no injuries--maybe you pay him $18M, I wouldn't, but it is at least a sensible proposition. No way you pay that much to guard turning 30 who can't stay healthy or pass block. You CAN find a G 3rd-5th round who can't pass block well but who is a mauler in run game. I'll take a G 75% as good as Scherff for $17M a year less in a heartbeat and our FO should have too.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Scalper;1281235]All-Pro team selected by journalists, not GMs or players or other people actually playing the game or building teams. Grades by groups like PFF often diverge sharply from All-Pro selections. All-Pro is a vanity entertainment award, not an analytic. So saying Scherff All-Pro doesn't mean he is necessarily top-2 at position, especially not in eyes of professional evaluators.



Next man up is $17M a year less. Yeah, they inherited, that doesn't mean they managed it properly.



Let's say he's 2nd best. No way is he better than Quenton Nelson, who is an absolute beast. I would not call it absurd to put him past 6th, he is a mauler run game, good moving in space to run block, but gets blown up on pass protection WAY too much--reason he was moved to G in first place, and there are LOTs of good mauling run blocker Gs. But again, let's even suppose he is better than Quenton Nelson or as good, which he isn't. Nelson has been in league 3 years, has been a 1st team All-Pro all three years, Pro Bowl all three years, and started all 48 games. Hasn't missed a single game. When his rookie deal expires he'll be in prime, having been absolute best at his position every year, with no injuries--maybe you pay him $18M, I wouldn't, but it is at least a sensible proposition. No way you pay that much to guard turning 30 who can't stay healthy or pass block. You CAN find a G 3rd-5th round who can't pass block well but who is a mauler in run game. I'll take a G 75% as good as Scherff for $17M a year less in a heartbeat and our FO should have too.[/QUOTE]

First, while AP teams are selected by journalists, they are not like the pro bowl selections and are highly regarded as accurate reflections. But since you mention PFF, they have him as 4th, with 2 AFC and 1 NFC guards. Guess what. That is the same as the AP selections. He also was voted to the pro bowl (which i despise referring to) which is voted on by gms, players, and fans - i am also guessing WFT fans didn't flood the ballot box for Scherff. So the only group out there saying he is anything other than a top 5 G is internet mafia types.

Second, next man up isn't both 1M/year and 75% better. Erick Flowers and Justin Pugh are 10 and 8m respectively and maybe are hit that 3/4 mark. $1M for a guard this year (non draft) gets you a guard in the 50 to 60th best slot.

Third, I love when rookie salaries are brought into discussion but that is only part of why your QNelson comment is a strawman fallacy. I don't pay for pff so i could only look at this year, but hear is a cbs note [quote]One of the most dependable guards in the league, Scherff has never posted a PFF grade below 72.5 in his six-year NFL career.*Over the last three seasons, Scherff ranks among the league’s best guards in nearly every key metric, [b]including a 97th percentile ranking on*true pass sets*[/b]and 90th percentile ranking in percentage of positively graded plays. Both numbers are among the most important when projecting interior offensive linemen from year to year.[/quote]. The bold is mine. You are simply wrong about Scherff in pass blocking and value overall. As for QNelson, whenever he hits FA I guarantee 17m per year will be the starting point.

Finally, yes you can get a mauler in the draft in the 3rd thru 5th round, and I expect the WFT will draft with that in mind but you don't let the strength of your OL walk first when you can afford not to.

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I love how we always hear the mantra "we have to keep/pay our own", but now that this team is close to being a true contender (and they are), they should just let their best offensive lineman walk because he's too expensive.

Sorry folks, that is his market value. Every position has a market value. It may seem silly or not feel right to pay a guard that much, but get used to it if you want an elite one.

Maybe in the future that price point comes down a bit like it did for RBs, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1281242]I love how we always hear the mantra "we have to keep/pay our own", but now that this team is close to being a true contender (and they are), they should just let their best offensive lineman walk because he's too expensive.



Sorry folks, that is his market value. Every position has a market value. It may seem silly or not feel right to pay a guard that much, but get used to it if you want an elite one.



Maybe in the future that price point comes down a bit like it did for RBs, but I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE]I agree with you with a slight divergence. I do think we overpaid a bit. Any time you use the second tag you are overpaying the market. But the concept of keeping our own elite player outweighs the small percentage of cap that we overpaid by.

We could, of course, cut our own guy and overpay another guy that someone else let walk - remember Adam Archuleta?



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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281243]I agree with you with a slight divergence. [B]I do think we overpaid a bit. [/B] Any time you use the second tag you are overpaying the market. But the concept of keeping our own elite player outweighs the small percentage of cap that we overpaid by.

We could, of course, cut our own guy and overpay another guy that someone else let walk - remember Adam Archuleta?



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Depends on how you look at it.

The Chiefs gave Joe Thuney ~$32M guaranteed when he signed, with a potential out after 2023. His cap number is $17.8M in 2022, $18.9M in 2023, and $19.4M in 2024-2025.

WFT paid Brandon Scherff $33M over the last two years, and owe him nothing more, unless he signs long term.

Once Thuney signed his deal, the market for an elite guard became at least $18M/yr.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1281250]Depends on how you look at it.



The Chiefs gave Joe Thuney ~$32M guaranteed when he signed, with a potential out after 2023. His cap number is $17.8M in 2022, $18.9M in 2023, and $19.4M in 2024-2025.



WFT paid Brandon Scherff $33M over the last two years, and owe him nothing more, unless he signs long term.



Once Thuney signed his deal, the market for an elite guard became at least $18M/yr.[/QUOTE]Good point.

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281243]I agree with you with a slight divergence. I do think we overpaid a bit. Any time you use the second tag you are overpaying the market. But the concept of keeping our own elite player outweighs the small percentage of cap that we overpaid by.

We could, of course, cut our own guy and overpay another guy that someone else let walk - remember Adam Archuleta?



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I guess I look at it as you are only overpaying if it hinders your ability to sign other talent. We have plenty of space so the tag didn't really cost us this year. If a long term deal gets done that could be a different story though because as you said that second tag will drive up the price a bit.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I don't look at the franchise tag as keeping our own. It's more like hiring a mercenary. He clearly won't be re-signed here. We could have used that money to sign a guard that wouldn't be as good AND fill one or 2 other holes on the roster. So we might drop a bit at G, but improve more than enough elsewhere to make up the difference then sum. Or not sigh a G and sign guys at different positions, then draft 1. But the same thing would still apply.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1281255]I don't look at the franchise tag as keeping our own. It's more like hiring a mercenary. He clearly won't be re-signed here. We could have used that money to sign a guard that wouldn't be as good AND fill one or 2 other holes on the roster. So we might drop a bit at G, but improve more than enough elsewhere to make up the difference then sum. Or not sigh a G and sign guys at different positions, then draft 1. But the same thing would still apply.[/QUOTE]You basically are looking at signing 1 A+ player for 1 year or 2 c+/b- players.
If we were cap strapped this would be a no brainer, but we had the cap to bring in the guys they want - and we seemed to get good talent at good price. So the question becomes is it worth breaking a part of the team that is set (right side of line) over an extra c+/b- player in an area of the team that is weak.
I can see the argument both ways, but I am not going to fault a FO that so far has done solid moves and market evaluations because I, an armchair guru if i may say, deems it to be the lesser choice.

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1281255]I don't look at the franchise tag as keeping our own. It's more like hiring a mercenary. He clearly won't be re-signed here. We could have used that money to sign a guard that wouldn't be as good AND fill one or 2 other holes on the roster. So we might drop a bit at G, but improve more than enough elsewhere to make up the difference then sum. Or not sigh a G and sign guys at different positions, then draft 1. But the same thing would still apply.[/QUOTE]As for being a mercenary, do you feel that way about Fitz who also signed a 1 year deal. Scherff is elite, not withstanding WFT fan experts, and has an expectation of testing free agency. He has been a WFT player for 6 years since he was drafted by us. That is the very definition of "a home grown player"

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Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I think it's pretty obvious they are trying to keep him. The FT was just a necessary step in that process. Doesn't mean it will work out in the end, as it takes two to tango, but they ARE trying to keep him, and paying him very well in the process.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281257]As for being a mercenary, do you feel that way about Fitz who also signed a 1 year deal. Scherff is elite, not withstanding WFT fan experts, and has an expectation of testing free agency. He has been a WFT player for 6 years since he was drafted by us. That is the very definition of "a home grown player"

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Considering he is 38 and was thinking about retiring, I don't think those are nearly the same comparisons. I doubt either side wanted more than 1 year.

Every player is "homegrown" until they leave. He had no choice but to be here these years, was offered a massive contract and still didn't want to stay. He will bump into my Kirk Cousins category next year. Hopefully he plays great this year for his own selfish reasons, because that will still benefit the team.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281258]I think it's pretty obvious they are trying to keep him. The FT was just a necessary step in that process. Doesn't mean it will work out in the end, as it takes two to tango, but they ARE trying to keep him, and paying him very well in the process.[/quote]

I don't blame the team, but I would have pulled the plug on him before the 2nd franchise tag.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Yes, we should have learned that lesson with Kirk.

If someone accepts playing on a SECOND tag, they're playing you for the money and n ot interested in sticking around long term.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

It could also be that the team has decided that they are not willing to pay him long-term, but since they have the cap space, they want to guarantee that they retain his services for one more year while they continue to build a competitive roster.

No one really knows what's going on behind the scenes, we can all just speculate. Like I've said before though, I'm just glad he'll be holding down that right side for at least one more year.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281268]It could also be that the team has decided that they are not willing to pay him long-term, but since they have the cap space, they want to guarantee that they retain his services for one more year while they continue to build a competitive roster.

No one really knows what's going on behind the scenes, we can all just speculate. Like I've said before though, I'm just glad he'll be holding down that right side for at least one more year.[/quote]


This is where I am in this process.

I am glad we have him for one more year, and hope it can work out long term .....

.... but honestly I don't want to over-invest in any guard on our roster. Spend that money on Tackle, or D-Line, or future QB. Find serviceable, competent Guards to play between a "very good" Center, and "very good" to "outstanding" Tackles.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1281238]First, while AP teams are selected by journalists, they are not like the pro bowl selections and are highly regarded as accurate reflections. But since you mention PFF, they have him as 4th, with 2 AFC and 1 NFC guards. Guess what. That is the same as the AP selections. He also was voted to the pro bowl (which i despise referring to) which is voted on by gms, players, and fans - i am also guessing WFT fans didn't flood the ballot box for Scherff. So the only group out there saying he is anything other than a top 5 G is internet mafia types.

[B]PFF had him ranked 6th best overall G as of week 15 of NFL season. [url]https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-25-offensive-linemen-through-week-15[/url]
So you are plain wrong. Their season ending rankings had him lower. Internet mafia smear ignored. Broader point is, even if he is 5th best G, or 3rd, not worth the money he wants. Even his past production not worth what he wants, over whole tenure not just most recent year, and the classic mistake of past was overpaying for past production which declined in future. There are very few examples of injury prone players magically becoming healthier in their 30s, this alone is reason not to resign, instead of being duped by the glitter of All Pro selection.[/B]

Second, next man up isn't both 1M/year and 75% better. Erick Flowers and Justin Pugh are 10 and 8m respectively and maybe are hit that 3/4 mark. $1M for a guard this year (non draft) gets you a guard in the 50 to 60th best slot.

[B]75% as good, not better. I would slide Charles, or Martin, or Larsen in at RG, accept a significant but not ruinous drop-off, and save a PILE. You don't have to spend $10M on a serviceable, above-average guard, just look at Schweitzer. Lots of teams draft solid but not elite starting Gs and have stud Ts and C.[/B]


Third, I love when rookie salaries are brought into discussion but that is only part of why your QNelson comment is a strawman fallacy. I don't pay for pff so i could only look at this year, but hear is a cbs note . The bold is mine. You are simply wrong about Scherff in pass blocking and value overall. As for QNelson, whenever he hits FA I guarantee 17m per year will be the starting point.


[B]Salaries matter. All teams have finite number of players they can give $15M+ deals to. The decision to replace a high-priced veteran who is never consistently healthy with a much lower priced rookie player is not absurd. It is the reality of NFL economics. So rookie salaries compared to veteran salaries are not absurd, they are part of NFL dynamic. I want to look at this team in 2 years and see McL, entire DL, etc., locked up, not lose our best young players to make room for a 32-year old G on IR making $18M a year with $20M+ dead cap if we cut him. The question is not can we afford Scherff this year, but whether he is the optimal use of resources long term. The answer is no. RG is the lowest leverage position of the entire starting 22, you don't pay a RG who is never healthy $18M.[/B]

[B]Nelson not a strawman fallacy. The crux is whether Scherff is worth what we are paying him and what he wants for a long-term deal. This is the crux of argument, not a refutation that distracts from argument as you mistakenly think. You ascertain value, in economics, via market pricing, and opportunity cost, cost of opportunities forsaken or parity products; we have no free market pricing as Scherff not URFA. Nelson, a G much more easy to argue worth $18M, is younger, consistently healthier than Scherff, and consistently better. Example of player perhaps worth what Scherff wants, with traits Scherff lacks.[/B]

Finally, yes you can get a mauler in the draft in the 3rd thru 5th round, and I expect the WFT will draft with that in mind but you don't let the strength of your OL walk first when you can afford not to.

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When the strength of OL is RG you have problems. Build it the right way, Ts and C, then Gs.

Scherff is okay in pass blocking when he gets his hands on people, but there are far too many plays where people blow by him untouched, pass rushers. He is naturally a slow-footed power blocker. This doesn't mean he sucks, but when you are talking about $18M for a G he should be total package. Scherff is not, especially not consistently year after year.

He has missed almost a third of games due to injury. In his prime. It is not absurd to think that climbs to 50% or higher in his 30s. Even if the pass blocking limitations don't concern you, he has strengths, the injury risk is too great to justify a fully guaranteed one-year deal (franchise) or a long term deal for tons of guaranteed money and injury guarantees. I don't hate Scherff, he is good, but not worth the price he is commanding. The smart choice is to be the Belicheat of old, let an aging injury risk walk, and let some other chump team overpay him to be on IR.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Schneed10;1280752]Scalper your take lacks consideration of the context within which McLaurin plays. The QB play he’s gotten the last two season has been bottom five in the NFL by any measure, advanced or otherwise. And he has done it with very little help around him with respect to other skill position players drawing the attention of the defense.

When we got Fitz, Chad Johnson and Mike Tannenbaum both commented on how this puts Terry on a rocket trajectory to the top. He gets open better than almost any WR out there, that’s what separates him as a true number one. Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, these weren’t the biggest receivers either, but they’re in the HOF because they got open better than anybody.[/quote]

I considered context. In terms of flourishing, I hope so. I love McL, he has heart of a Lion. But from analytical perspective, you still need a big WR to get it done. Rice had some SOLID #2s. Let's hope one of our long-strider #2s steps up this year and its a moot point. The thing Rice and Largent had, besides talent and heart, was QBs that placed the ball consistently very accurately so that they could catch and continue running. Something to consider for people often smitten with all these run-happy QBs, is accuracy, a function of mechanics, but also in some cases a talent you can't teach. McNabb and Newton to me are some of all time worst accuracy examples, in terms of just watching them play. Cousins is pretty bad that way on long balls. How many times do you see receivers slow to get ball or adjust too much, allowing tackle by DB, rather than catching without breaking stride? Maddening. Brady despite being a turd cheater throws a nice deep ball lot of times, impeccable mechanics, give him credit. Montana didn't have strongest arm, but he was cool as liquid helium, and an incredibly accurate passer with great anticipation.

Nitpicking aside, we improved, but so did every other good team. Difference is, we are starting from mismanagement deficit, other good teams aren't, so we have more room to improve. I'd love to see McL see single teams more and crush it, but I still wonder optimal mix of WR talent in today's NFL. There isn't only one right or wrong answer, would be great conversation to have with like 5 GMs and head coaches. To me X factor for whether O steps up, WR wise, isn't McL, or Samuel, or Humphries, but whether one of 3-4 underachieving long strider tall WRs can get shizznit together and be a legit #2. Let's hope so. Gives your offense a LOT more flexibility.

You made some interesting points, man. I always enjoy discussions like these when people can flip some shit without getting panties in a twist.

Sammis Reyes Grade
 

Sammis Reyes - TE - A

On athletics alone, this guy is a 4th - 5th round pick or so. It takes a lot more than measurables to play in the NFL, however, and we've all seen lots of measurable guys fail to make the transition. That being said, we have NOTHING at TE outside Thomas. We obtained a guy who while admittedly unproven, has sky-is-the-limit athletic potential. Seeing a guy trot around in shorts catching scripted plays at a pro-day has almost no bearing on real-world NFL performance, so we won't know for a bit, but our TE situation at least immediately looks a lot less ridiculous. Guy has the size of more pure blocking TE, 6-5.5" and 260, without any bad weight, but even though doesn't have stunning straight line speed, has good fluidity and athleticism for size, as expected for guy that could play D1 hoops.

You could have drafted a whole lot of guys, and still might, rounds 4-7, with much less potential than this, higher floor perhaps, but massively lower ceiling. We gave up no draft picks, in trade or drafting directly, used no waiver wire position, and basically got what is essentially a free late round or UDFA draft pick. Guaranteed money certainly minimal, meaning if he blows we cut him with nothing lost. Not ridiculous to think he sticks as #3 TE, we've kept far bigger scrubs on the roster for years. With no risk or downside to signing, and major upside, especially given a TE this big that can move--think passing on plays that telegraph run--you have to give this signing an A.

It is an A on lower end of roster, not some Earth shaking top-5 player signing, but it all adds up. A C released by Panthers here. A decent slot WR that should cost $4M for $1.5M in Humphries there. Another C picked up on waivers. A return specialist on the cheap who you cut with minimal loss. Maybe a few UDFAs. All the sudden you have WAY more talent bottom of roster, and when injuries strike. These kinds of moves show a team that is exhausting EVERY avenue to get better, and forcing EVERY player at EVERY position to compete. We know have four respectable Cs on roster, for example, who knows who makes it, but with competition, the team wins.

There is absolute NO downside to this signing besides small potential dead cap hit (we don't know deals of contract), and with this being weakest position on roster besides FS, not absurd to think he might stick as 3rd TE. This is like getting a free 6th or 7th round pick.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Scalper, when you say 4 respectable C's, do you mean Center or CB? I can only see 3 C's on the WFT roster?