Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=#56fanatic;217603]I will say this : When teams purposely take the deep passing game from teams, which minnesota and Dallas both did, we have to be able to run the ball. Running the ball effectively brings a safety or two towards the line of scrimmage, which in turn opens more plays down the field. If a team can sit in a 2 deep coverage the entire game you will NOT be able to throw down field. and the one time he did, what happened, it was picked, BY THE SAFETY. No one thinks Betts can run the ball. If a team can control the running attack with the front 6 or 7, the deep passing game will not exist. Betts couldn't run, the line couldn't run block, what ever happened, it goes hand and hand.[/quote]

I agree with what you're saying here. I'm denying that teams are prepared to defend us because Portis is missing. We have blocking issues as well. I totally agree. I think you're right on with your analysis of how teams have been stacking the box too.

But when the guy can't get the ball down the field,that's entierly different deal. You're telling me that these guys have Brandon Lloyd, Moss, and Randel El...and Cooley covered all the time, every play?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Portis should not be saving Brunell's career. people expect Portis to singlehandledly to bring the safeties up with his running, and then block the blitzers with his 220lb frame for Brunell's passes to connect? what's next, Portis actually helping Brunell with his throwing motion on the field?

young Brunell would have made some of those plays work with just his arm and legs, but that seems like ages ago.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217570]We can't say with certainty that the team will struggle with JC in there until JC actually get's in there.

It's all speculation at this point. And given the current offensive production, system or no, [B]the drop off wouldn't be that dramatic if at all[/B].[/quote]

You sure? Mark has thrown only 1 INT this year. Most QBS have 2 or more, looking at the stats. Simms (TB) has 6, Plummer (DEN), Collins (TEN) and Frye (CLE) have 4 each.

Brunell is in the middle of the pack in completion %. Better than Delhomme, Favre, Bulger, Collins, Vick, Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Plummer, Tom Brady, Bledsoe, McNair, Brad Johnson, Chris Simms and all of the part-time QBs that have played.

He fumbled once but didn't lose it. Most of the QBs in the NFL have 1 or 2 LOST FUMBLES so far.

He threw for 197 yards despite being sacked 6 times against Dallas.

It could be a LOT worse.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=illdefined;217610]Portis should not be saving Brunell's career. people expect Portis to singlehandledly to bring the safeties up with his running, and then block the blitzers with his 220lb frame for Brunell's passes to connect? what's next, Portis actually helping Brunell with his throwing motion on the field?

young Brunell would have made some of those plays work with just his arm and legs, but that seems like ages ago.[/quote]

Elway and Montana stopped running a lot later in their careers too, were they trash too?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217612]You sure? Mark has thrown only 1 INT this year. Most QBS have 2 or more, looking at the stats. Simms (TB) has 6, Plummer (DEN), Collins (TEN) and Frye (CLE) have 4 each.[/QUOTE]

how many TDs do those guys have? how many does Brunell have so far this year including preseason?

hmm, my posts must be easy to ignore.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217614]Elway and Montana stopped running a lot later in their careers too, were they trash too?[/QUOTE]

you really want to compare Montana and Elway with Brunell? really?

cuz you just compared him to Simms, Plummer, Collins and Frye.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Buster;217612]You sure? Mark has thrown only 1 INT this year.
[/quote]

and just how many games has he won? how many TDs has he thrown? oh yeah, that's right, zero.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=illdefined;217618]you really want to compare Montana and Elway with Brunell? really?

cuz you just compared him to Simms, Plummer, Collins and Frye.[/quote]

I'm not comparing him to anyone...just making the point that QBs' games change over time. You want him to keep running like he's a Washington Husky but he's changed his game from learning more AND to compensate for his age, as EVERY QB has had to do...unless they play like statues from day 1 like Bledsoe.

He can't run as well as he used to but he's also better in other areas of his game, like decision-making. In 1996, he had 19 TDs and 20 INTs. in 2005, he had 23 TDs and only 10 INTs. Also, his sacks have gone down dramatically as his career has progressed. Even when he could run, he was sacked MORE. Why? Better decisions.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=That Guy;217620]and just how many games has he won? [/quote]


This isn't baseball. We don't give the Win to one player (pitcher).

Brunell isn't the sole reason for our losses.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm not convinced that even if defenses put 8 in the box and CBs in man on every single play that our passing game will improve.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217626]I'm not comparing him to anyone...just making the point that QBs' games change over time. You want him to keep running like he's a Washington Husky but he's changed his game from learning more AND to compensate for his age, as EVERY QB has had to do...unless they play like statues from day 1 like Bledsoe.

He can't run as well as he used to but he's also better in other areas of his game, like decision-making. In 1996, he had 19 TDs and 20 INTs. in 2005, he had 23 TDs and only 10 INTs. Also, his sacks have gone down dramatically as his career has progressed. Even when he could run, he was sacked MORE. Why? Better decisions.[/QUOTE]

or maybe because of Clinton Portis. which many seem to say.

only place i expect and want Brunell running to now is Jason Campbell's training sessions.

Re: Rooting for minor injury?
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897;216782]sometimes they seemed open sure. but you're an idiot if you think that just because a team blitzes or there's pressure on the QB that you can't complete a pass.

there are adjustments to be made and i don't think brunell has the ability to make quick, strong throws based on what i've seen. the game still requires that someone step up and make some plays and that has to start with the QB, especially until CP gets back.[/QUOTE]

VT you made a very astute point, I broke the game down the last 2 weeks to see where the problem lies and that was a big factor, Brunells inability to hang in the pocket and check down off his primary and have enough arm strength to snap off a throw, he can winde up and throw a deep ball but he needs a big pocket and a lot of time, he's like an outfielder who has to winde up to make a big throw when he needs to be more like a pitcher throwing from a stretch winde up.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I am not ready to get off the Brunnel bandwagon yet. I think that the coaches made a mistake by not playing the first string offense more and implementing more of the system during preseason. This offense is not the perfect fit for Brunnel, IMHO, so he should have been kept in games longer. I thought it would take 4 games to get the system down. That said, if we can't beat the Texans, we are in big trouble. Lets re-evaluate at halftime.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217614]Elway and Montana stopped running a lot later in their careers too, were they trash too?[/QUOTE]


Big difference both of those QB's where very good pocket passers who scrambled when need be, contrary Brunell was never a great pocket passer he was more of a playmaker, so now he has to become a pocket passer because the legs are gone and he can't do it, couple that with his absolute fear of being touched and well we can see the results.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

let me be the first to say, if Brunell is 1/5th old Montana or Elway, we should CRUSH the Texans. and if Portis (the reason Brunell can throw far and over the middle apparently) is playing, we should win by 100pts.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

kinda hard for the man to stay in the pocket when the opposing team's defense is running by the offensive line like elephants running through birdcages is'nt it???brunnell is not the problem,the defense and the offensive lines are!!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Perhaps polls should be opened during the middle of the week after a cooling off period. I'm starting to believe Brunell should get another shot through the Jacksonville game. That gives the 'Skins Offense a quarter of the season to get their act together to field a playoff team. After that if we are no further along then we need to look to the future.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=redskinsfanatic;217662]kinda hard for the man to stay in the pocket when the opposing team's defense is running by the offensive line like elephants running through birdcages is'nt it???brunnell is not the problem,the defense and the offensive lines are!!!![/QUOTE]
Yea I agree. But old #8 sure isn't helping anything! If he dosn't get it done this week I would say in fine Romen fashion thumbs down for Him. :Flush: :benched:

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Brunell is the Chuck Knoblauch of QB's. He is literally afraid to throw the ball.

At least he will get us a good draft pick (assuming that it doesn't go to Denver).

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm just about done with this topic for this week, but my last word is this...

-A healthy Portis will help out, if the line can start opening some holes. The OL is really underperforming thus far and has been a big disappointment.

-I still think Brunell can be a quality QB in this system if supported by a strong running game and he's well protected. Brunell is the kind of QB who's play mirrors that of the entire offense. When the running game and protection stinks, he's going to stink. He's just not the kind of QB that can do it by himself.

Heres a thought!...
 

(this is probably gonna spout some serious arguments but) If #8 cant run the offense against houston....I think we should let someone who does know the system run it.....What are we paying Todd Collins for? I didn't see jack crap outta him in the preseason...Its time for him to earn his keep right!?!? He's Familiar with Saunders Offense right!? So play him if Mark can't cut it!

Re: Heres a thought!...
 

i say we never let mark brunell pass again... only run the ball or put in another quarterback... sorry MB

Re: Heres a thought!...
 

At this point I trust myself more than Mark. Eclipsing 200yards should not be a monumental task and with the teams talent should be reached by the 3rd or 4th qtr. I would have Mark tested for a learning disability.

Re: Heres a thought!...
 

Haha, are you being serious? No, I'm serious...are you serious? Cause if you are, god help us all.

Re: Heres a thought!...
 

Lots of threads on or about this topic. My thoughts are we give Brunell a shot a a weaker Houston squad. If he can't get it done. Time for a change to Campbell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Here's a thought... MERGE...

I'm glad they don't let people who can't read NO MORE BRUNELL THREADS bullitens make our personell decisions....

Todd Collins is a douchebag who molested my retarded uncle

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

wow . When did Brunell become this hated? Over night?What a difference a yr makes.

Re: Heres a thought!...
 

[quote=pg86;217707](this is probably gonna spout some serious arguments but) If #8 cant run the offense against houston....I think we should let someone who does know the system run it.....What are we paying Todd Collins for? I didn't see jack crap outta him in the preseason...Its time for him to earn his keep right!?!? He's Familiar with Saunders Offense right!? So play him if Mark can't cut it![/quote]

Oh fa sho

TC knows whats good. Bout time you started Respecting.

:Smoker:

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=canthetuna;217730]Here's a thought... MERGE...

I'm glad they don't let people who can't read NO MORE BRUNELL THREADS bullitens make our personell decisions....

Todd Collins is a douchebag who molested my retarded uncle[/quote]

For your information I did not see that thread until after I posted and I do not have moderator powers here so I couldent delete it..Give me a break dude...STOP PICKING ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I haven't read all 43 pages so sorry if this has been covered, but has anyone noticed that the middle of the field doesn't exist for Brunell? All of his passes are to the outside.. I watched the replay from Dallas and Madden referenced it as well.. That eliminates the potential for a lot of first downs with Lloyd running crossing routes and Cooley down the seam. I think he knows his arm strength isn't there and he thinks he has a better chance to the sidelines than down the middle and d-coords are taking that away.. Hopefully Portis will open things up a little more and we see improvement, if not, let the Campbell era begin!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

if the offense can't get it done against houston with portis in tow, there's no reason not to make the switch and move on.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217608]I agree with what you're saying here. I'm denying that teams are prepared to defend us because Portis is missing. We have blocking issues as well. I totally agree. I think you're right on with your analysis of how teams have been stacking the box too.

But when the guy can't get the ball down the field,that's entierly different deal. You're telling me that these guys have Brandon Lloyd, Moss, and Randel El...and Cooley covered all the time, every play?[/quote]

Good Point. I do think someone is open, but think about how little of time he has had to throw the ball when we are in those 3wr - 1te formations. Very little if any. any the problem with that is, they are getting pressure with 5 to 6 guys. leaving 6 to 5 defenders to cover the field. which in most cases is enough. And we haven't been 3rd and short very much, its usually been 3rd and 6 or more. So, while i do think some receivers are getting open, I also believe Brunell is being forced to throw it away before they are open or as in dallas getting sacked.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Hopefully we can start to nip some things in the bud this weekend. Like I said, I want Brunell to return his form from '05. I'm just having serious doubts.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

part of the reason Gibbs got Brunell and Campbell was their legs and abilty to escape a pass rush. Brunell just isn't what he used to be, that birthday in dallas was a message.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Brunell has not thrown for more than 200 yards in the past 11 games. The last game where he threw for more than 200 yards was in Tampa last year. For people not to think there is something very wrong with Brunell........whatever. Don't blame it on the coaching staff or the play calling, Brunell sucks. Look what is going on in Baltimore with a fresh face.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=skinnyfan;217813]Brunell has not thrown for more than 200 yards in the past 11 games. The last game where he threw for more than 200 yards was in Tampa last year. For people not to think there is something very wrong with Brunell........whatever. Don't blame it on the coaching staff or the play calling, Brunell sucks. Look what is going on in Baltimore with a fresh face.[/quote]

McNair passing for 116 yards against the Bucs and 126 yards against the Raiders?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

he's just old. it's tough sometimes for these old athletes to realize they don't have it anymore. if you look back, he hasn't really had much in his whole stay in washington, even in our playoff season.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

He's just too old. You can't take his job, he's too old. I mean look at him, he's just too old.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;217837]He's just too old. You can't take his job, he's too old. I mean look at him, he's just too old.[/quote]

What is that, a line from Office Space?? Haha

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

happy gilmore (but I changed it a bit to fi this situation better)

I no longer have a real opinion on the matter because it doesn't matter that I think Brunell needs to develope a mystery injury that will keep him out for the rest of the season...[I]yet[/I].