Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Mattyk;702174]I agree the voluntary vs. mandatory thing creates sticky situations, but on the flipside [B]if I'm AH and I just raked in $40M from my employer and 99% of my teammates are working hard at Redskins Park, voluntary or not it might be a good idea to play the good soldier [/B]routine and show up... out of respect for your employer and teammates.[/quote]

I understand your flip side point, but at what salary level point is it acceptable to miss out on these events? I think to some coaches and FO's it is never acceptable to miss these events and that is the problem.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Mattyk;702174]I agree the voluntary vs. mandatory thing creates sticky situations, but on the flipside if I'm AH and I just raked in $40M from my employer and 99% of my teammates are working hard at Redskins Park, voluntary or not it might be a good idea to play the good soldier routine and show up... out of respect for your employer and teammates.[/quote]

Not to mention your "NEW" Head Coach and "New" Defensive Cordinator.I realize that the 3-4 might not be the scheme AH wants to play in but he's going to so why not come in see the play book learn some of the new language and what it is the Haslett has in store for him?

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

It isn't that he isn't here per say, but his attitude. THere is a new mHC?scheme in town. Wouldn't you want to geta heads up on learning what it is all about or get somewhat of a feel of what is going on before July/August, so you can excel come the season openeer vs the Cowboys. Sure it is optional, but the whole scheme is changing, get a leg up on it. It is analogous to having your professor in psycology taking time out to have study sessions at night for the big exam the follwing week, where he is going to touch on material that will be featured on the exam. Instead of going to the study session, you party, etc. Come test time, the students that went have a better idea of what they need to know to get the A, and you are uncertain of what will be covered. If some of these 3-4 DEs are really hungry for a job and compete, get to know the basics of the playbook, don't be too surprised if AH is going to have his ass on the bench often this season. Shanny wants guys that want to play and get the job done.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Giantone;702220]Not to mention your "NEW" Head Coach and "New" Defensive Cordinator.I realize that the 3-4 might not be the schem AH wants to play in but he's going to so why not come in see the play book learn some of the new language and what it is the Haslett has in store for him?[/quote]

Even though I am one to say "this is voluntary camp, and he does not have to be here", I agree with most of you...

#1- We have a new HC. Nows the time to get to know him and him to get to know you. Show your work ethic.

#2- I agree that now is the time to learn the plays as a team and to learn each others nuances.

but I would hope that AH has the playbook by know. If he didn't have it the day he left after talking to shanahan, then I'd hope the team made sure one was either sent to him securely so he could be studying it all this time. I truly hope it's not a work in progress and they are still putting it together or just finished it last month.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;702230]It isn't that he isn't here per say, but his attitude. THere is a new mHC?scheme in town. Wouldn't you want to geta heads up on learning what it is all about or get somewhat of a feel of what is going on before July/August, so you can excel come the season openeer vs the Cowboys. Sure it is optional, but the whole scheme is changing, get a leg up on it. It is analogous to having your professor in psycology taking time out to have study sessions at night for the big exam the follwing week, where he is going to touch on material that will be featured on the exam. Instead of going to the study session, you party, etc. Come test time, the students that went have a better idea of what they need to know to get the A, and you are uncertain of what will be covered. [B]If some of these 3-4 DEs are really hungry for a job and compete, get to know the basics of the playbook, don't be too surprised if AH is going to have his ass on the bench often this season.[/B] Shanny wants guys that want to play and get the job done.[/quote]

I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be shocked!

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=SBXVII;702098]This is what I don't understand, I know on defense each person has a specific job, ie; DT/NT is supposed to take on blockers and fill gaps on run plays. What I don't get is although he might be used as a NT does he really think he would not be trying to go after the QB? It would be his job to collapse the pocket while the DE's were circling around forcing the QB to step up. I'd almost imagine he might even get more tackles, sacks and forced fumbles vs. the DE's. Plus if we stuck him at DE and the QB rolls out it's not like he would be able to keep up with the QB anyway... he's too big.
[/quote]

Depending on which variant Haslett is adopting, Haynesworth will have to do his fair share of disciplined gap control, and it's well-known he hates that and he would pick a gap and just attack it. I don't think we're adopting the Phillips variant, so the NT will likely have to defend both the gap to his right and to his left.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Giantone;702220]Not to mention your "NEW" Head Coach and "New" Defensive Cordinator.I realize that the 3-4 might not be the scheme AH wants to play in but he's going to so why not come in see the play book learn some of the new language and what it is the Haslett has in store for him?[/quote]

That is what training camp and preseason is for. AH is a veteran interior defensive lineman, he will learn his gap responsibilities and new terminology in a week. It is very easy for defensive lineman.
Hell most of the players and coaches complain training camp and preseason is already too long and that too many players get hurt. During the first round of OTA's a couple of weeks ago three players on other teams suffered season ending injuries.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Defensewins;702309]That is what training camp and preseason is for. AH is a veteran interior defensive lineman, he will learn his gap responsibilities and new terminology in a week. It is very easy for defensive lineman.
Hell most of the players and coaches complain training camp and preseason is already too long and that too many players get hurt. During the first round of OTA's a couple of weeks ago three players on other teams suffered season ending injuries.[/quote]

Very good points, this isn't a rookie who needs to learn anything new. Hell, Brett Favre (and no, I'm not comparing Favre to Haynesworth, so calm down bitter girlfriends) is the king of not showing up to OTAs, workouts, etc., etc. This happens all the time.

This story hopefully will die down over the next couple of days, unfortunately it may because of the whole Santana-HGH situation.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;702259]Depending on which variant Haslett is adopting, Haynesworth will have to do his fair share of disciplined gap control, and it's well-known he hates that and he would pick a gap and just attack it. I don't think we're adopting the Phillips variant, so the NT will likely have to defend both the gap to his right and to his right.[/quote]With Fletcher behind him, we probably could let Haynesworth attack his gap of choice, and let Fletcher read him and pick up any gap that Haynesworth misses (because just because he shoots a different gap doesn't mean he isn't going to make the play). Blache had a weird affinity for sending Fletcher on a delayed gap blitz, usually outside the guard, which tended to take our best interior defender out of the play for no good reason at all.

But hey, once in a blue moon, their running back would completely misread the play and we'd get a chance to hit the QB late and pick up a 15 yard flag!

Things will be different this year, I think.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=GTripp0012;702315]With Fletcher behind him, we probably could let Haynesworth attack his gap of choice, and let Fletcher read him and pick up any gap that Haynesworth misses (because just because he shoots a different gap doesn't mean he isn't going to make the play). Blache had a weird affinity for sending Fletcher on a delayed gap blitz, usually outside the guard, which tended to take our best interior defender out of the play for no good reason at all.

But hey, once in a blue moon, their running back would completely misread the play and we'd get a chance to hit the QB late and pick up a 15 yard flag!

Things will be different this year, I think.[/quote]
lol nice

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Ruhskins;702312]Very good points, this isn't a rookie who needs to learn anything new. Hell, Brett Favre (and no, I'm not comparing Favre to Haynesworth, so calm down bitter girlfriends) is the king of not showing up to OTAs, workouts, etc., etc. This happens all the time.

This story hopefully will die down over the next couple of days, unfortunately it may because of the whole Santana-HGH situation.[/quote]

It does happen all the time. But when you've got a new staff coming off a 4-12 shitty season where you underperformed cause you didn't take responsibility to get yourself in shape then I think it's important to attend off season workouts. Although Farve is a primadonna me first diva, he's got leverage cause he's coming off one of his best seasons and played an important part in almost getting his team to the Super Bowl. Not the case with AH so it would be foolish to compare the two. Hopefully AH is taking his job more serious and doing the things he needs to do to play at a high level.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702322][B]It does happen all the time. But when you've got a new staff coming off a 4-12 shitty season where you underperformed cause you didn't take responsibility to get yourself in shape then I think it's important to attend off season workouts. [/B]Although Farve is a primadonna me first diva, he's got leverage cause he's coming off one of his best seasons and played an important part in almost getting his team to the Super Bowl. Not the case with AH so it would be foolish to compare the two. Hopefully AH is taking his job more serious and doing the things he needs to do to play at a high level.[/quote]

Um...He attended all of the off season work outs and conditioning last year and he ended up out of shape. So he is trying it his way this time. What is wrong with that?
These are adults not high school players.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702322]It does happen all the time. But when you've got a new staff coming off a 4-12 shitty season where you underperformed cause you didn't take responsibility to get yourself in shape then I think it's important to attend off season workouts. Although Farve is a primadonna me first diva, he's got leverage cause he's coming off one of his best seasons and played an important part in almost getting his team to the Super Bowl. Not the case with AH so it would be foolish to compare the two. Hopefully AH is taking his job more serious and doing the things he needs to do to play at a high level.[/quote]

Favre has done this all the time, hence the late signing with Minnesota after having an atrocious end of the season with the Jets.

Honestly, the only good thing of having AH at voluntary workouts/OTAs would be to appease the fans that hate him. Personally I care more that he shows up to mandatory camp in shape and ready to go.

[quote=Defensewins;702323]Um...He attended all of the off season work outs and conditioning last year and he ended up out of shape. So he is trying it his way this time. What is wrong with that?
These are adults not high school players.[/quote]

Good observation. Honestly, I'm not even going to bother with a lot of these people, they'll bitch about Haynesworth no matter what. I'm sure if he was in camp, they'd be bitching about something else.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Defensewins;702323]Um...He attended all of the off season work outs and conditioning last year and he ended up out of shape. So he is trying it his way this time. What is wrong with that?
These are adults not high school players.[/quote]

That's just a cop out excuse, blaming the old staff. Do you hear any of the other playsers using that excuse? I agree, just get in shape and be ready when it counts. But he had better be ready or the fans are going to un leash hell on him.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Ruhskins;702324]Favre has done this all the time, hence the late signing with Minnesota after having an atrocious end of the season with the Jets.

Honestly, the only good thing of having AH at voluntary workouts/OTAs would be to appease the fans that hate him. Personally I care more that he shows up to mandatory camp in shape and ready to go.



Good observation. Honestly, I'm not even going to bother with a lot of these people, they'll bitch about Haynesworth no matter what. I'm sure if he was in camp, they'd be bitching about something else.[/quote]

Farve still gets the benefit cause of his overall body of work. AH just needs to show up ready to go and play to his potential and no one is going to care about the off season crap. No one will bitch if he does that.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702330]That's just a cop out excuse, blaming the old staff. Do you hear any of the other playsers using that excuse? I agree, just get in shape and be ready when it counts. But he had better be ready or the fans are going to un leash hell on him.[/quote]
Well we've had a lot of players using cop-out excuses then. He's not the only one that held issue with the training staff. So he took it upon himself, before the new regime and staff came in, to see to it that he would receive proper training. One can only wait to see.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702330]That's just a cop out excuse, blaming the old staff. Do you hear any of the other playsers using that excuse? I agree, just get in shape and be ready when it counts. But he had better be ready or the fans are going to un leash hell on him.[/quote]

I was not blaming the other staff, I was just stating that it did not work for im.

As Ruhskins stated very accurately, the AH haters are going to bitch about him no matter what. Are you a hater? :)
What is being in "shape" for a 340+ DL? Ted Washington who was one of the better interior lineman in my opinion weighed 375+ and could not run 10 yards with out getting winded, but when push comes to shove in the trenches he was a beast. Look at the Vikings Williams's DT's, they are top 5 DT's in the NFL and not what I would call work out guys, more like pizza eaters.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702334]Farve still gets the benefit cause of his overall body of work. AH just needs to show up ready to go and play to his potential and no one is going to care about the off season crap. [B]No one will bitch if he does that.[/B][/quote]

And if he shows up out of shape, then people can bitch about it. But right now, people are bitching about him because they don't like him, and personally I think this is stupid, childish, and needs to stop period.

[quote=Defensewins;702336]What is being in "shape" for a 340+ DL? Ted Washington who was one of the better interior lineman in my opinion weighed 375+ and could not run 10 yards with out getting winded, but when push comes to shove in the trenches he was a beast. Look at the Vikings Williams's DT's, they are top 5 DT's in the NFL and not what I would call work out guys, more like pizza eaters.[/quote]

I think it'd be to AH's advantage to slim down a bit if he wants to be a 3-4 DE. I think it's a bit funny though that the AH haters want him to play NT, which is a position that has a lot of players who only play a few downs, depending on the situation, and NTs are known to get winded very quickly.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

AH will do what he damn well wants, when he damn well feels like it.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Ruhskins;702354]And if he shows up out of shape, then people can bitch about it. But right now, people are bitching about him because they don't like him, and personally I think this is stupid, childish, and needs to stop period.



I think it'd be to AH's advantage to slim down a bit if he wants to be a 3-4 DE. I think it's a bit funny though that the AH haters want him to play NT, which is a position that has a lot of players who only play a few downs, depending on the situation, and NTs are known to get winded very quickly.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with not liking the guy. Let's face it. He's probably not a bad guy to be around in the locker room but he's a bad teammate. Just like farve, he's a great guy to pal around with and everyone loves him but is he a good teammate? No. It's not personal.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

What makes a good teammate exactly? I don't think that's an easy thing to define.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

That's a good question Matty. I think a good teammate, first and foremost, can be counted on at that critical point in a game. 2nd, there is some level of comraderie that surpasses just the job mentality. Finally, there has to be a solid level of trust.

I think AH showed the first part in several games, whether it was the Giants game at 3rd and 4th and 1, or the Dallas game where he played even though it was clear he was in severe pain.

The 2nd step is what theoretically gets built in the shared OTA/Minicamp/Training camp experiences. I think AH could mess this up if he doesn't respond to teammates calls, but there is a lot of time for this to be built up.

Trust, who can answer if he has that in the locker room?

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;702423]That's a good question Matty. I think a good teammate, first and foremost, can be counted on at that critical point in a game. 2nd, there is some level of comraderie that surpasses just the job mentality. Finally, there has to be a solid level of trust.

I think AH showed the first part in several games, whether it was the Giants game at 3rd and 4th and 1, or the Dallas game where he played even though it was clear he was in severe pain.

The 2nd step is what theoretically gets built in the shared OTA/Minicamp/Training camp experiences. I think AH could mess this up if he doesn't respond to teammates calls, but there is a lot of time for this to be built up.

Trust, who can answer if he has that in the locker room?[/quote]

You mean that him getting signed for 100 mil doesn't automatically makes him a bad teammate? [/sarcasm]

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Ruhskins;702426]You mean that him getting signed for 100 mil doesn't automatically makes him a bad teammate?[/quote]

It does if he didn't give each guy in the locker room a new boat! Come to think of it, he should have given each member of the Warpath a new boat too!


[/witty cynicism]

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;702427]It does if he didn't give each guy in the locker room a new boat! Come to think of it, he should have given each member of the Warpath a new boat too!


[/witty cynicism][/quote]

I dont need a boat a jet ski will do

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702415]It has nothing to do with not liking the guy. Let's face it. He's probably not a bad guy to be around in the locker room but he's a bad teammate. Just like farve, he's a great guy to pal around with and everyone loves him but is he a good teammate? No. It's not personal.[/quote]

Would seem to me that one of the first signs of a good teammate is a guy you want in your locker room. If he's not a good guy to be around in the locker room then he's probably not a good teammate

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Mattyk;702417]What makes a good teammate exactly? I don't think that's an easy thing to define.[/quote]Simple, a guy who puts the good of the team before himself and gives his best effort on each play. That's all that can be asked of a good teammate. Everyone may not be best buddies, but when it comes time to "get in the foxhole" if a guy will do those two things he's a good teammate.

Here's how I personally defined a good teammate, if I knew the guy was willing to do the same things I would for the team, he's a good teammate.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

There were atleast 2 games last seson where Al was was ready to crush some skulls in last year cuz his teamates where getting pushed around or ganged up on, and he was the only guy rushing to help. Actions speak louder than words.

He is a good teamate on the field.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=warpaint;702450]There were atleast 2 games last seson where Al was was ready to crush some skulls in last year cuz his teamates where getting pushed around or ganged up on, and he was the only guy rushing to help. Actions speak louder than words.

He is a good teamate on the field.[/quote]


Oh hell yes, when the giants tried to get loud were was AH right in the middle.

HTTR.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=warpaint;702450]There were atleast 2 games last seson where Al was was ready to crush some skulls in last year cuz his teamates where getting pushed around or ganged up on, and he was the only guy rushing to help. Actions speak louder than words.

He is a good teamate on the field.[/quote]

Yes sir!
That is what makes a good teammate.
All that other Kumbaya shit is not going to help in the true battle field foxhole.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;702449]Simple, a guy who puts the good of the team before himself and gives his best effort on each play. That's all that can be asked of a good teammate. Everyone may not be best buddies, but when it comes time to "get in the foxhole" if a guy will do those two things he's a good teammate.

Here's how I personally defined a good teammate, if I knew the guy was willing to do the same things I would for the team, he's a good teammate.[/quote]


well said.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

I believe that great teams are made up of "lunch pale" or blue collar men. They are committed, they are intelligent and are accountable. It is not an easy task for a GM and coach to end up with fifty-three of these types but it does happen. Not one player should stand out from the rest for any reason other than playing football, leaving it all on the field. I could not imagine having a fifty-three man squad, all of them with personalitys like, say T.O. I think that if the players win the majority of their games without any one or few taking the credit, that would be awesome.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=tryfuhl;702335]Well we've had a lot of players using cop-out excuses then. He's not the only one that held issue with the training staff. So he took it upon himself, before the new regime and staff came in, to see to it that he would receive proper training. One can only wait to see.[/quote]

I think I remember Daniels saying the same thing. But Daniels isn't suppose to be the impact player that AH is suppose to be. And he's not making the $ that AH is. To me the guys that make the most $ should be the guys that set the tone or they need to be your leaders.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Mattyk;702417]What makes a good teammate exactly? I don't think that's an easy thing to define.[/quote]

It's a guy that doesn't put himself or his personal issues above the team. CP is a shitty teammate where Donavan McNabb is probably a great teammate.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=RememberRFK;702879]I[B] believe that great teams are made up of "lunch pale" or blue collar men. They are committed, they are intelligent and are accountable. [/B]It is not an easy task for a GM and coach to end up with fifty-three of these types but it does happen. Not one player should stand out from the rest for any reason other than playing football, leaving it all on the field. I could not imagine having a fifty-three man squad, all of them with personalitys like, say T.O. I think that if the players win the majority of their games without any one or few taking the credit, that would be awesome.[/quote]

Exactly. These define the Skins of the 80's and early 90's.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702914]Exactly. These define the Skins of the 80's and early 90's.[/quote]

I doubt you'll see this again given the change in the league (i.e. free agency, commercialized league, etc., etc.)

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=Ruhskins;702917]I doubt you'll see this again given the change in the league (i.e. free agency, commercialized league, etc., etc.)[/quote]

I disagree. We've had many of those type of guys the last few years...Samuels, Marcus Washington, Randy Thomas, JC, John Jansen.. I think Orakpo is one of those guys, Rock Cartwright..there are several more. AH is def not one of those type of guys.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;702932]I disagree. We've had many of those type of guys the last few years...Samuels, Marcus Washington, Randy Thomas, JC, John Jansen.. I think Orakpo is one of those guys, Rock Cartwright..there are several more. AH is def not one of those type of guys.[/quote]

True, but I feel that those will be few and rare in between. Don't get me wrong, I like those guys. But look at Jason Campbell for example, how he was crucified by fans. Or guys like Jensen, Washington, Thomas, and Samuels, who the team got rid as they got old. You'll see guys like that come and go, but they won't have long tenures like in the past.

Honestly, I hate that problem children get all the press, but unfortunately a regurgitated/overhyped/overkilled story about Haynesworth will sell quicker among the media and the fans, than a story about a guy that handles his business.

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

obviously......

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/26/haynesworth-faces-paternity-suit/]Haynesworth faces paternity suit | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Re: Haynesworth is Behaving Selfishly
 

[quote=dirthogs311;703244]obviously......

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/26/haynesworth-faces-paternity-suit/]Haynesworth faces paternity suit | ProFootballTalk.com[/url][/quote]

This may or may not be true, but any guy who comes into a lot of money could expect this sort of thing. This is what makes me sick...

[B]Her lawyer, Salvatore Strazzullo, told the Post, "This man is worth millions. She has had to apply for Medicaid to take care of her pregnancy."[/B]

If she's broke and can't afford a kid, why the hell did she let herself get pregnant? Maybe that in itself is the answer.