Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;904702]That doesn't answer my question. Why does carrying a gun (using technology) make him (or anyone) a coward?

You'll find Zimmerman [B][U]DID[/U][/B] call 911.[/quote]

statement applied directly Zim in his situation. Apparently he is a great neighbor where everyone knows him, likes him yada yada. If you are such a person, then why is he so afraid? Because he is a coward. Also a bully, also a criminal with a history of violence...

But Rat, I dont think your a coward if you carry a gun. Its a right by every American, even if you have a criminal, violent past or you have a history of mental illness.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Here is the puzzling thing. If there is a witness that can collaborate that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, wouldn't that mean they were also witness to the shooting? Also, did that witness just sit there and do nothing? I'm amazed how so few people can act, yet they cry out if people don't help them out.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904688]Zimmerman was clearly in the wrong and Martin did not deserved to be killed. Gotta be a law that was broken somewhere.[/quote]


You sound like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton back when the Duke LaCrosse players were being accused of rape. They stated similar things and even offered to pay this woman's tuition without knowing the full details. Little did they know, they were all being lied to by the woman they were defending.


You don't know the details, and neither does anybody outside the investigation. I say we let this play out and have all the facts come out before we start proclaiming somebody innocent or guilty.

I'm quite positive we have a "equal force" type of defense laws here in NC. If a person comes at you with bare hands, a gun isn't equal force. However, somebody slamming your head into a sidewalk would be considered deadly force. I'm more interested in hearing the witnesses.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904688]its not emotional but[B] certainly disagrees with interpretation of law[/B]. But by your assessment you support law that say you can kill a child if you fear for his your life after chasing down, after harrassing him. Which is fine. Wasnt Zimmerman told by someone not to go after him...blotchy on that. And i guess people who disagree with that interpretation are a lynch mob, which is common but expected. [/quote]

It also assumes facts not proven, facts in dispute, and facts relating to Zimmerman's and Martin's thought processes. You say things like "chasing him down" as if it undisputed that Zimmerman was trying to catch and tackle the Martin rather than make sure he know where Martin was when the police arrived. Maybe Zimmerman was trying to "chase him down" as you say - I don't think it's shown by the known facts but possible. If true and Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, then - yup - he would be liable for murder.

Would your opinion change, however, if Martin saw Zimmerman following him, lay in wait for Zimmerman to pass, then sucker punched Zimmerman first and attempted to bash Zimmerman's skull on the sidewalk? Not saying this happened just asking if, under those facts, you think Zimmerman would be the guilty party.

A dispatcher said, don't follow and Zimmerman did. Bad judgment no doubt, but not illegal. Perhaps, just perhaps Zimmerman had seen one too many break-ins in his neighborhood (there had been eleven in the last month) and too many slow police responses so he just wanted to be sure he know where Martin was going. He was legally allowed to do that as long as he didn't threaten Martin with physical harm.

[quote=Chico23231;904688]Zimmerman is responsible for the child's death. And Martin was harrassed by an unknown person to him not of any authority but some joe on the street. Who knows what Zim said to him, but i guess he can say anything he wants to him considering he's packing a gun like a damn coward.[/quote]

He can "say anything he wants to" so long as he didn't threaten physical harm with the weapon - please show me one piece of evidence that Zimmerman's gun even made an appearance before the gun shot. One statement from any witness that Zimmerman threatened physical harm to Martin. I have not seen it. Please show me something that would indicate it is more than speculation or more emotionally charged rhetoric on your part. Quite simply, it's just as easy to speculate from the facts known or disputed that Martin was responsible for causing the situation to esculate.

Sorry, I just keep coming back to the facts.

[quote=Chico23231;904688]Zimmerman was clearly in the wrong and Martin did not deserved to be killed. Gotta be a law that was broken somewhere.[/quote]

Zimmerman [I]may[/I] have been wrong. Martin did not deserve to die. [I]If[/I] Martin was the initial aggressor, [I]if[/I] Zimmerman was truly acting iin self-defense, and [I]if[/I] Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, I simply disagree with your assertion that Zimmerman was at fault.

You assume it was not self-defense based on your personal resolution of facts that I assert are disputed or not proven. Fair enough. I simply say, it may well be as you say, but the facts are in dispute and you are operating on a lot of speculation. I don't want to put [I]anyone[/I] in jail based on speculation.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904700]Joe when im following Zimmerman around with a gun and he tells me to stop, Im just gonna use the "tough shit" defense. Can I retain you?[/quote]

So long as you don't threaten him with physical harm, use the gun as an obvious intimidation factor, physically assault him or otherwise place him in fear of his life or limb. Sure - if he initiates the physical assault and you are injured, I'll take a piece of that action. Hell, I'll sue the crap out of him for you.

Take his picture. Make sure you have a permit, [EDIT: PRIOR TO HIM ASSAULTING YOU,] don't use or otherwise brandish the gun in any way. Also, be sure to document everything because, in MD and VA, unlike Florida, the allegation of self-defense will not prevent you from being arrested.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904709]statement applied directly Zim in his situation. Apparently he is a great neighbor where everyone knows him, likes him yada yada. [B]If you are such a person, then why is he so afraid? Because he is a coward.[/B] Also a bully, also a criminal with a history of violence...[/quote]

and this is not rank speculation in the least.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=NC_Skins;904710]Here is the puzzling thing.[B] If there is a witness that can collaborate that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, wouldn't that mean they were also witness to the shooting?[/B] Also, did that witness just sit there and do nothing? I'm amazed how so few people can act, yet they cry out if people don't help them out.[/quote]

Well maybe the guy looked out his window, saw the beating going on, he looks away to find his phone (or perhaps walks/runs to it), and the shot is fired.

It seems to me that lots of different people seeing the altercation at different times from different perspectives. All reasonable reactions - rather than stand and watch, they find their phones and call the police. Once the shot is fired, they stay indoors and keep their heads down. Pretty much what I would do.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904709]Its a right by every American, even if you have a criminal, violent past or you have a history of mental illness.[/quote]

You can't own a firearm if you have a criminal history or a history of mental illness.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

legally speaking?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=NC_Skins;904710]Here is the puzzling thing. If there is a witness that can collaborate that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, wouldn't that mean they were also witness to the shooting? Also, did that witness just sit there and do nothing? I'm amazed how so few people can act, yet they cry out if people don't help them out.[/quote]

The witness after seeing the man on top of Zim. ran in to call 911 and that's when the shot was fired.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;904725]You can't own a firearm if you have a criminal history or a history of mental illness.[/quote]

Tell that to the VT shooter.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

After this I think I'm going to buy a gun. I rather be an alive coward then a dead hero.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;904725]You can't own a firearm if you have a criminal history or a history of mental illness.[/quote]

well there you go...we are safe then *sigh* [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho]Seung-Hui Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904734]well there you go...we are safe then *sigh* [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho"]Seung-Hui Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]

See my above post we must thank the same.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;904640]Posted by mlmpetert yesterday at 03-27-2012, 11:35 AM but thanks for the reminder.[/quote]

You can see how much attention I've been paying to this thread