Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Hog1;1111126]Straight up BPA....He apparently lives by it.
Live it.....Know it....Love it......[/quote]

He did say that need factors into his BPA equations.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler:

According to some, a premium athlete at the position.

According to others, lacks explosion, solid all around but not a premium pass-rusher who will take time to develop into that role - if he does at all.

If there is something I am missing on the guy, I am happy to hear it. I agree that a pass-rushing OLB is a bigger immediate need than WR (duh!), but I am not seeing the "specialness" that puts Fowler on the level of Williams or Cooper.

[For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1111399][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/22/jimbo-fisher-says-free-crab-legs-for-jameis-winston-was-isolated-incident/]Jimbo Fisher says free crab legs for Jameis Winston was isolated incident | ProFootballTalk[/url]

he didnt steal them, he was just entitled to free crab legs[/quote]

Winston is kinda dumb. Free crab legs bc you are a Florida State athlete = benefits = ban hammer.

Jimbo of course says isolated incident, our athletes have never receive benefits.

Joe - re Fowler, i thought consensus was that Fowler was the premiere pass rusher with an explosive first step. He was in tier 1 for pass rushers with the Shane ray and Gregories of the world in the 2nd tier.

I saw Cooper play a few times, consistent, polished, good job tracking the ball in the air and adjusting his body to make the catch.

talking pundits say Hart has the height (6'2'), arm length, hand size, speed and vertical to be the next big game, go up and get it receiver .. with pop the top speed.

cooper isnt far behind, 6'0', bigger hands but isnt as much of an athlete as hart. hart being a physical specimen of sorts.


what i love, we cant really go wrong unless we trade back so far we end up with a bunch of B/C grade players.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404]I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler:

According to some, a premium athlete at the position.

According to others, lacks explosion, solid all around but not a premium pass-rusher who will take time to develop into that role - if he does at all.

If there is something I am missing on the guy, I am happy to hear it. I agree that a pass-rushing OLB is a bigger immediate need than WR (duh!), but I am not seeing the "specialness" that puts Fowler on the level of Williams or Cooper.

[For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].[/quote]

What separates him from others is size, strength, and nastiness at the point of attack. Where you worry about guys like Beasley and Shane Ray is their ability to set the edge against the run game. Athletic for sure, but can they hold the point of attack and get off blocks. If they're not strong enough to hold the point of attack then the ILBs get sealed off in the wash and it's a good shot at a 5 yard gain at minimum on most runs to their side.

Fowler definitely will not have that problem. He's by far the strongest of the edge rushers available. He seats and digs in.

18 sack guy? Maybe never. A Ryan Kerrigan clone with maybe a bit more upside? Yes.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404][For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].[/quote]

You're beating that Cooper drum so hard it's about to make my ears bleed. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will become a better NFL player than the other players you named. In the end, drafting is still a SWAG.

Wasn't J.J. Watt drafted 11th, or something like that? Ten NFL GM's who are paid to draft the right player in the 1st Round passed on him because they thought they were drafting players who would be better than him in the NFL. They were wrong.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111414]You're beating that Cooper drum so hard it's about to make my ears bleed. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will become a better NFL player than the other players you named.
[/quote]You're right.

It should go without saying that of course there aren't any guarantees when it comes to the draft.

But that's true for any prospect.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404]I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler..[/quote]There will be mixed reviews about every prospect. They all have their pros and cons. Even for evaluators that [I][B]agree[/B][/I] on a players attributes they might have their own preferences for which attribute is more important.
Size or speed, production or potential, "pro-readiness" vs physical skillset, scheme vs production etc....

Personally for me I always keep in mind that if any prospects make it in the NFL players they have to become better players then they were in the college and for me physical skill set (which we try to judge as arm chair GMs) in addition to coach ability/mental make-up (which we can't judge and even NFL teams struggle to judge) go a long way in decision making.

When it comes to pass rushers I like the bigger body type guys in general. It drives me nut to see a RB stone a pass rusher and that [I]should[/I] happen less often with a big body pass rusher.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111410]What separates him from others is size, strength, and nastiness at the point of attack. Where you worry about guys like Beasley and Shane Ray is their ability to set the edge against the run game. Athletic for sure, but can they hold the point of attack and get off blocks. If they're not strong enough to hold the point of attack then the ILBs get sealed off in the wash and it's a good shot at a 5 yard gain at minimum on most runs to their side.

Fowler definitely will not have that problem. He's by far the strongest of the edge rushers available. He seats and digs in.

18 sack guy? Maybe never. A Ryan Kerrigan clone with maybe a bit more upside? Yes.[/quote]

I know bench press doesn't really gauge game strength, but Beasley did have more reps than Fowler but I do understand that.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111419]You're right.

It should go without saying that of course there aren't any guarantees when it comes to the draft.

But that's true for any prospect.[/quote]

Guarantees? No but you can make the argument for the "safer" bet, or the higher floor player.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111425]Guarantees? No but you can make the argument for the "safer" bet, or the higher floor player.[/quote]I've always considered 'safer' as a throw away claim when a draftnik likes a prospect.

My view of the draft is the best that can be achieved is the proper evaluation of players based on production and skillset then ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset.

To me all the prediction stuff is bunk, people are unpredictable.

Evaluate. Rank. Decide.

Then...cheer or cry but always hope.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111428]I've always considered 'safer' as a throw away claim when a draftnik likes a prospect.

My view of the draft is the best that can be achieved is the proper evaluation of players based on production and skillset then ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset.

To me all the prediction stuff is bunk, people are unpredictable.

Evaluate. Rank. Decide.

Then...cheer or cry but always hope.[/quote]


To me I have liked Cooper since his freshman year. Beasley just came outta no where once the combine happened. He wasn't a potential top 5 pick prior to that. To me there are less flaws with Cooper than the top edge rushers and we can always get another in the 2nd or 3rd round, because I am not ready to give up on Trent Murphy like some are

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111424]I know bench press doesn't really gauge game strength, but Beasley did have more reps than Fowler but I do understand that.[/quote]

Yeah that means jack shit. You don't anchor against a run block with your pecs, you do it with your entire body, most of all your ass, thighs and core.

Squat would be a better measure.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111434]Yeah that means jack shit. You don't anchor against a run block with your pecs, you do it with your entire body, most of all your ass, thighs and core.

Squat would be a better measure.[/quote]

I can't find it quickly but I'm fairly certain I heard McLovin talking about how he gauges the strength of a player in one of his earlier interviews after being named the GM.

He looks at how they perform against other players on film; who gets pushed around versus who does the pushing around.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1111435]I can't find it quickly but I'm fairly certain I heard McLovin talking about how he gauges the strength of a player in one of his earlier interviews after being named the GM.

He looks at how they perform against other players on film; who gets pushed around versus who does the pushing around.[/quote]

You mean actual football actions to gauge how a player will fair at the NFL level. What means of madness is this. Is the guy's name known throughout? That's the way to tell. Is somebody demanding a king's ransom to get him? Pay up and draft him now. Forget the witchcraft of film and study.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I think Fowler would be a great choice. I just want the best available on defense imo. Best pure talent ready to ball. Whoever falls they like.